Where was Jesus born?

blobrana said:
I perhaps wasn't too clear about what i meant.

No. Joseph did find lodging, probably with relatives.
(However we cant be sure about the nativity stories as we cant treat them as historical records.)



Indeed, the birthplace of King David was supposed to be Bethlehem Ephratah, and the prophesy was that a Messiah will come from the House of David.
However, in Mark 6:1 Nazareth is given as Jesus' birthplace and as his "hometown." This is right next to Bethlehem Hagalilit. (see previous map).

The two Bethlehems are separated by about 100 kms.

So it seems that Matthew just swapped locations.

Again - If we assume this is correct - why this deception?

(i have my own hunches as to why Matthew would want to reinforce the his claims)
Click to expand...

Go to Bethlehem. Joseph and Mary stayed in a cave.

Incidentally, Anne Catherine Emmerich, Catholicism's foremost seer and visionary from a few Centuries back, told all about the Cave when it was still the widespread belief that they had stayed in a Stable. She had even drawn diagrams which match the Shrines now in Bethlehem.

it is odd about Science. They demand proof from everyone else, but for themselves they think it is enough to present probabilities. They probably did this, and that probably happened. If only Religious People were so much exempted from having to prove anything.

But think about how probabilities work. Sweeping generalizations and averaging down. History to the Statistician would be a mix of uniformally grey paint -- no conflicts, no oppositions, nobody standing out. Just everybody probably doing the same thing as everybody else.

Mary was probably an ordinary girl and Jesus an ordinary baby. Who can argue with that?
 
Leo Volont said:
Go to Bethlehem. Joseph and Mary stayed in a cave.
Click to expand...

Cool, but perhaps you should go to the first post?

If people can`t be bothered to read or understand what i have written, or sussed out what this thread is about, then i really don't see why i should bother posting to this section. I am not a teacher - i have pointed out a tremendously important possibility that you and many others have rudely not addressed or simply ignored.
If you want to hijack the thread to discuss if Joseph and Mary stayed in a cave or house, or if they existed or not , or their astrological signs then fine. It makes no difference to me, but, count me out.
 
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I think Jesus was born on a hay patch, and then placed into a wooden type crib. But this is just my opinion.
 
Perhaps we dont know what your asking for because it is hard to know exactly where a person was born over 2,000 years ago.
 
Yes ,
perhaps.
But in this case we have archaeology which gives a very good indication that Bethlehem Ephratah didn't exist at the time; therefore it couldn't be the birthplace of Jesus.

So again for others, i am not saying anything about the validity of the nativity story, or how this revelation will affect Christians or Muslims, or if it is even important to their faiths.
All that i am asking is if we accept the Gospels, and that Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth, (ie assume this is correct); and accept that the archaeological evidence that Bethlehem Ephratah did not exist then .... But another Bethlehem, further north, beside Nazareth, however did exist.... then why is it that Bethlehem Ephratah today is seen to be the birthplace of Jesus.

It`s a simple question.
Why were the two towns were swapped?
Why the deception?
 
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Leo Volont said:
Go to Bethlehem Joeph and Mary stayed in a cave.
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: That is the allegory.

You mention Anne Catherine Emmerich, Catholicism's foremost seer and visionary from a few Centuries back, told all about the Cave when it was still the widespread belief that they had stayed in a Stable. She had even drawn diagrams which match the Shrines now in Bethlehem.
************
M*W: You mention your seer, but she is not a professor of truth.

it is odd about Science. They demand proof from everyone else, but for themselves they think it is enough to present probabilities. They probably did this, and that probably happened. If only Religious People were so much exempted from having to prove anything.

But think about how probabilities work. weeping generalizations and averaging down. History to the Statistician would be a mix of uniformally grey paint -- no conflicts, no oppositions, nobody standing out. Just everybody probably doing the same thing as everybody else.

Mary was probably an ordinary girl and Jesus an ordinary baby. Who can argue with that?[/QUOTE]

*************
M*W: You are binding the truth. There is no truth to begin with. I think you are delusional.
 
blobrana said:
Yes ,
perhaps. But in this case we have archaeology which gives a very good indication that Bethlehem Ephratah didn't exist at the time; therefore it couldn't be the birthplace of Jesus.

So again for others, i am not saying anything about the validity of the nativity story, or how this revelation will affect Christians or Muslims, or if it is even important to their faiths.
All that i am asking is if we accept the Gospels, and that Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth,(ie assume this is correct); and accept that the archaeological evidence that Bethlehem Ephratah did not exist then .... But another Bethlehem, further north,beside Nazareth, however did exist.... then why is it that Bethlehem Ephratah today is seen to be the birthplace of Jesus.

It`s a simple question.
Why were the two towns were swapped?
Why the deception?
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: The answer is easy. Jesus didn't exist so his birthplace didn't exost.
 
According to lore, Bethlehem.

However, evidence points to Bethlehem not being a town in its own right, as the OP puts it. Most likely, the "town" of Bethlehem was a hamlet or group of cottages with a small administrative building. Bethlehem would probably been, with several other cottages and hamlets, part of a Roman-equivalent to a metropolitan area, and dependent on the larger area for commerce and economic survival.

The place he was born in was most likely a small cave, where animals were kept during the spring, which the gospels erroneously translate as a "manger". Considering said hamlet's meagre resources, and inability to have proper Roman facilities such as real barns or inns, the "inn" referred to in the gospels was most likely as flat field where people could bed down at for the night.
 
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"Experts have restored a 1,400-year-old glass mosaic glowing in gold, recovered from a site next to the Sea of Galilee, the Israel Antiquities Authority announced Monday."

Read more
 
i do really asking my self why peaple wann know if jesus was exist, was real, was not, wich year and and and.......
i do not say that people doasnt have to belive what they think its right for them individuality to believe. thats they right and possible thats good. but what will happen if that what they belive was wrong???????
will they stop to belive or will we live in a global panic.....and than what?
 
i take your point,
but, it was pointed out before it doesn't matter if batman or Joshua exists or not; nor is it important or relevant about how this `discovery` affects Christian or Muslim belief.
 
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