Where was Jesus born?

B

blobrana

Registered Senior Member
Hum,
According to the Gospels, Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
However, archaeological evidence indicates that that Bethlehem in Judea did not exist as a functioning town when Jesus is believed to have been born.
According to a growing number of Bible scholars and archaeologists, the location of the biblical Bethlehem is at a place identified as Bethlehem Hagalilit, near Nazareth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem,_Galilee

If we assume this is correct - why this deception?

(Tourist trade, politics, or just a Doh! moment?)
 
Actually, it was Bethlehem...
"Bethlehem — Literally "house of bread", referring to the zodiac house of Virgo the eternal celestial virgin."

http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/mat2.html


"For reasons explained here, I am not sympathetic to the idea that Jesus was a real person. The date of his annual birth can be found in the stars because he was a mythologized sun hero. (See Gospel Zodiac) This page explains the astrological significance of December 25th and the age which marked the year of his original birth. The date of his original birth can be affixed at December 25, 7 BCE.

The clue to the timing of Jesus' first birth has to do with his association with fish. In what astrologers call a Great Year spanning 25920 years; it is divided into twelve Ages according to the constellations of the Zodiac, lasting 2160 years each. Because earth rotates with a wobble called precession, it does not return to the exact point of departure from the previous year. When the sun is at its highest position during the spring equinox, the constellation in its background determines the Age it is in. (For more detail, see Bible Astrology)

Technically, the Age of Jesus began when the sun entered Pisces on the spring equinox. At the beginning of spring for the last two thousand years, the sun appears to be drifting across the stars of Pisces with each passing year. Because this creeping process is so slow, it is not easy to make an exact determination when an Age begins and ends. But the timing of the beginning of the Age of Pisces fits nicely with the Bible's depiction of Jesus being born about 4-6 years before the beginning of the first century."

http://www.usbible.com/Astrology/when_was_jesus_born.htm

-Deception indeed :cool:
 
BlueMoose said:
Actually, it was Bethlehem...
"Bethlehem — Literally "house of bread", referring to the zodiac house of Virgo the eternal celestial virgin."

http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/mat2.html


"For reasons explained here, I am not sympathetic to the idea that Jesus was a real person. The date of his annual birth can be found in the stars because he was a mythologized sun hero. (See Gospel Zodiac) This page explains the astrological significance of December 25th and the age which marked the year of his original birth. The date of his original birth can be affixed at December 25, 7 BCE.

The clue to the timing of Jesus' first birth has to do with his association with fish. In what astrologers call a Great Year spanning 25920 years; it is divided into twelve Ages according to the constellations of the Zodiac, lasting 2160 years each. Because earth rotates with a wobble called precession, it does not return to the exact point of departure from the previous year. When the sun is at its highest position during the spring equinox, the constellation in its background determines the Age it is in. (For more detail, see Bible Astrology)

Technically, the Age of Jesus began when the sun entered Pisces on the spring equinox. At the beginning of spring for the last two thousand years, the sun appears to be drifting across the stars of Pisces with each passing year. Because this creeping process is so slow, it is not easy to make an exact determination when an Age begins and ends. But the timing of the beginning of the Age of Pisces fits nicely with the Bible's depiction of Jesus being born about 4-6 years before the beginning of the first century."

http://www.usbible.com/Astrology/when_was_jesus_born.htm

-Deception indeed :cool:
Click to expand...

OWNAGE!!! :yay:
 
Hum,
ok it seems he was just made up,
but it still doesn't explain why the two towns were mixed up...
 
blobrana said:
Hum,
According to the Gospels, Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
However, archaeological evidence indicates that that Bethlehem in Judea did not exist as a functioning town when Jesus is believed to have been born.
According to a growing number of Bible scholars and archaeologists, the location of the biblical Bethlehem is at a place identified as Bethlehem Hagalilit, near Nazareth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem,_Galilee

If we assume this is correct - why this deception?

(Tourist trade, politics, or just a Doh! moment?)
Click to expand...

....Most people, whether they believe that Jesus was God, a loon, or teacher who lived a very moral life; believe that Jesus at least existed. Whether or not Jesus was God, is something that is still debated everywhere. Also he was born in Bethlehem, whether it's Bethlehem Hagalilit, or just plain Bethlehem, He was still born in a place called Bethlehem.
 
flameofanor5 said:
....Most people, whether they believe that Jesus was God, a loon, or teacher who lived a very moral life; believe that Jesus at least existed. Whether or not Jesus was God, is something that is still debated everywhere. Also he was born in Bethlehem, whether it's Bethlehem Hagalilit, or just plain Bethlehem, He was still born in a place called Bethlehem.
Click to expand...

Who cares what "most people" believe. "Most people" believe George W. Bush is a Christian. Obviously "most people" need to get off there ass and do some research!
 
Interesting to when you think of it in the context to this information:

blobrana said:
Jesus, the Sun, continues on his way into "Galilee". The word "Galilee" literally means "circuit". The original Greek word is γαλιλαις {gal-il-ah'-yah} (Strong's Greek #1056. Click here to see the verse in Greek), which is a word of Hebrew origin לילג {gaw-lee-law'} (Strong's Hebrew #01551). A "circuit" is a closed, usually circular path. The ecliptic is the circuit the Sun travels along during the year. The ecliptic is a great circle inscribed on the celestial sphere. The ecliptic is also a circle on a planisphere. Jesus, a personification of the Sun, continues on his way along the ecliptic, or "Galilee".
Click to expand...

Source here.

So we have two cities named Bethlehem which means "sheaf of wheat" from Virgo, then we've got Galilee in the mix named for the Sun's "circuit".

I would wager a guess that either one or both were not Bethlehem in the supposed time of Jesus, and that they later adopted the names out of support for the new Religion. But that's a guess so I can't back that up. Like many other mysteries from antiquity, we'll probably never know.

Since Jesus is nothing more than an astrological allegory though I think the point is kinda moot. It's like referring to Romulus and Remus establishing Rome. Can anyone deny that is a myth? Of course not. But no one worships them so nobody gets their feelings hurt when they do point out that myth.
 
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The archaeological evidence points to the Galilee locations as being inhabited at the crucial time. It was probably a satellite town of a major Roman urban rebuild (Cesarium), and housed many workers.
The Bethlehem located near Jerusalem seems to have been abandoned. The lack of any artefacts from the period and crucially the construction of an aqueduct through the town indicate that it was abandoned (it seems that aqueducts and water courses were never routed through inhabited towns).

And since there is also evidence of a very early church in Bethlehem Hagalilit it seems that, from a purely evidence based point of view, that was the biblical Bethlehem. I would discount that another settlement(s) remains undiscovered or had a similar name.
So disregarding the astrological allegory, the question remains, why were the two towns swapped?

ie, this is similar to someone saying that the capital of Italy is Turin (it does not matter if batman and Gotham city were based on it).
 
The bible says they laid Jesus in a manger (like an egg?).
It implies that he was born in a house.

Link

The question is where was that house?
 
blobrana said:
The bible says they laid Jesus in a manger (like an egg?). It implies that he was born in a house.

Link

The question is where was that house?
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: The "house" is an allegory referring to the "House of Bread," or the Constellation Virgo. Virgo holds in her right hand a sheaf(sp) of wheat and in the other hand ears of corn (i.e. the "House of Bread").

The earthly city named for the Constellation Virgo is Beth-le-hem. Other names associated with the Constellation Virgo are "Bethulah, the Virgin," and "Bethulto, the Virgin." All relating to the Constellation Virgo.

Virgo has always been known to us by her Latin name "The Virgin." The Hebrews called her either "Bethulah," or "Almah," both meaning "The Virgin." Early Arabians called her "Adarah" meaning "pure virgin." She was also known as "Sunbul,"referring to the ear of corn which she carries that emphasizes the "seed" she is carrying.

The Constellation Virgo is known in some ancient cultures as "the barren woman." This alludes to Abraham's wife, Sarah, as well as Joachim's wife Ann, and Elizabeth, Mary's older sister. In Hebrew, the name of the star Spica represents Virgo as "Zerah, the Seed." Sounds pretty close to "Sarah," Abraham's old, barren wife.

The "manger" refers to the zodiac (a circle of animals and people). Jesus was the sun of god and was placed in the center of the zodiac.

It very well may have been that the city of Bethlehem didn't exist during the timeframe of the nativity story, since the myth was created about the story of the Constellation of Virgo. In earlier Egyptian times, Virgo represented Isis holding baby Horus. It's all myth. It doesn't matter if Bethlehem existed during this time or not. The constellations were in the heavens long before ancient humans created the myths that became religions.

*************
M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote (FAQ) of the Day:

"The universe runs itself, and the eternal laws inherent in Nature suffice, without any first cause or prime mover." ~ Marquis de Sade

*************
M*W's Anti-Bitterness Comments (ABCs) of the Day:

"Imagination finds a road to the realm of the gods, and there man can glimpse that which is to be after the soul's liberation from the world of substance." ~ Kahlil Gibran, 1883-1931 Lebanese Poet, Artist and Mystic
 
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