Where "the end justifies the means"

one_raven said:
You are wrong. The poeple voted. That is Democracy.
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Yeah, they voted. But it obviously don't mean shit! But then see my notes below!

one_raven said:
Prop 8 passed in California, because that's what the majority wanted. Now, the minority is attempting to sway the opinion of the majority so the next time it comes up,....
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The next time? So ....the vote actually means nothing, is that what you're saying? And you approve of that system?

And that's the beauty of democracy? ...that the vote don't mean shit until the special interest folks get what they want? Then as soon as they get what they want, then they like the vote system? The beauty of democracy, huh?

Baron Max
 
one_raven said:
Let me ask you Max... If Texans voted to not allow people of your national descent to vote or marry, would you not try and convince others to overturn that?
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Me, personally? Well, I wouldn't give a shit! :D

But I know what you mean. And the answer is that I'm convinced that we have a good system in place, so I'd use those avenues to attempt to get things set "right". But I wouldn't go out in gangs and protest on the streets, no. Because that's not the system that I would want to be a part of ...that anyone who wanted to could go out and protest and change our governmental system.

John Buchan was/is an idealistic fool and a dreamer!

Baron Max
 
one_raven said:
Absolutely. Times change, granpa. People change their minds.
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And that's another thing that you have wrong. "People change their minds" is an all-inclusive "people", yet you're basically saying that if only a few change their minds, then they should get what they want .....apparently without regard to all of the other people who voted. That has to be wrong ...in any system of free democracy.

In a free democracy, when the vote begins to mean nothing, then we have some major problems.

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
And that's another thing that you have wrong. "People change their minds" is an all-inclusive "people", yet you're basically saying that if only a few change their minds, then they should get what they want .....apparently without regard to all of the other people who voted. That has to be wrong ...in any system of free democracy.

In a free democracy, when the vote begins to mean nothing, then we have some major problems.

Baron Max
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What the hell are you talking about?
If the difference was only by a few, and those few change their minds then more than half the people want this.
If more than half want it, it passes.
It's not that difficult to comprehend, is it?

Would you rather have everything stay the same, even though people no longer want what the used to want?
 
Means and ends are the same thing.

One who is using foul "means" is achieving fouls "ends" even if there is a red herring thrown in at the end.
 
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