I think we can say that truth is good and concrete. What is "good" certainly is not abstract in that respect. Most christians believe that evil did not come from Satan but the freewill that God gave us. Of course Satan is lighting the match but only if we allow him.
Where do you think good/evil came from?
- Thread starter jcarl
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You can say that but do you think it makes it true? I think there are several types of truths. A "relative" truth would be an example which contradicts your claim.
"good" is PURE ABSTRACT, so you're wrong. "good" is absolutely subjective.
Most christians have a lot of eronious beliefs. Cult members are that way by definition.
That glimmer of supposed light will probably be stomped out here. That last question about punishment was a sarcastic question. I think that's a very dangerous way to run a civilized society. And by that "logic", a guy like Hilter couldn't be brought to justice.
Nobody would need the Bible to tell them that genocide is wrong, but it does say that murder is wrong, just to reinforce it.
Nobody would need the Bible to tell them that genocide is wrong, but it does say that murder is wrong, just to reinforce it.
A
and2000x
Guest
'Truth' can neither be good nor evil, which are relative terms and have no grounding in reality. Sometimes the truth can destroy people's minds and that is certainly 'bad' to them. Imagine learning the world is round for the first time, certainly such a concept seems evil and may hurt others, but it's the truth nonetheless.
For me I think 'morality' should be removed from the equation of good and bad, because it attaches mystical notions to it. Things should instead be seen as:
good- what helps society.
bad- what hurts society.
This can almost be vague in itself. For example: taking away products with CFCs may be seen by some as hurting society because it destroys technological progress. However, getting rid of CFCs protects the environment and forces society to find safer alternatives.
I think this song sort of sums up the God concept from Dante's perspective: (it's not exactly grade A poetry)
Morbid Angel:
10. God Of Emptiness
Lies - And you fill their souls
With all oppressions of this world
And all the glory you receive?
So, What makes you supreme?
Lies - Your crown is falling
I offer fantasy
And you, you creator are
Blind with envy
Let the children come to me
Their mother loves me, so shall they
Woman, bleeding, ate my gifts
Man was close behind
Just like a snake I'm slithering
Through my world divine
And like the cat I'm stalking
I'll take your soul and You'll
Be like me
In emptiness, free
Just bow to me faithfully
Bow to me splendidly
Just bow to me faithfully
Bow to me splendidly
Just bow to me faithfully
Bow to me splendidly
Wesmorris,
My bad, I read your post and had the word truth in my head. This is what I meant to ask: Can you give me an example of relative *good*?
And2000x,
Ok so good equals benefitting society. Then why are so many people of the persuasion that capital punishment is wrong, as it does benefit society since they can no longer kill?
My bad, I read your post and had the word truth in my head. This is what I meant to ask: Can you give me an example of relative *good*?
And2000x,
Ok so good equals benefitting society. Then why are so many people of the persuasion that capital punishment is wrong, as it does benefit society since they can no longer kill?
A
and2000x
Guest
I'm a bit confused about what you are asking.
People are opposed to capital punishment because they are idiotic self-moralizing Judeo-Christians who deserve capital punishment themselves. People oppose all types of things for religious or dogmatic ethical reasons without any grounding in reality.
People are opposed to capital punishment because they are idiotic self-moralizing Judeo-Christians who deserve capital punishment themselves. People oppose all types of things for religious or dogmatic ethical reasons without any grounding in reality.
Jcarl how can the morals and ethics that were taken from thousands of years ago be in any way beneficial to the society that has moved forth from that time? In the bible it says that women should always serve men unconditionally...is that right in todays society, or is it right period? In the bible it says that it is wrong to be a homosexual. Is it still wrong to be a homosexual in today's society...a bishop that is a homosexual was just allowed to remain bishop. There are many things that the bible tries to plant into our heads that will hinder the human race from moving on, and it is necessary to move on as a species so that we can better ourselves as a whole.
A
and2000x
Guest
While I agree with your points Altec, wouldn't you say that current positions on women or homosexuals are based on moral positions themselves? For thousands of years the woman's place was to raise the child and tend to the man. To do otherwise was seen as 'morally' wrong. However, in modern times, the idea of a woman being a housewife is said to be 'morally wrong'. Do you see how the standard reversed? The same goes with homosexuals. At one time it was thought that homosexuality was pure evil, now it seems that no one can question a homosexual, a minority or a cripple without being judged as 'evil' or 'unethical'.
Ever since the fall of pagan Europe, the moralists took over and that is unfortunate.
On Judeo-Christians:
I'm talking about the more liberal brands of Judeo-Christians, the ones who like to picket and spew humanist garbage. In fact, liberals not even be religious, they must simply adhere to some stupid concept of morality.
Ever since the fall of pagan Europe, the moralists took over and that is unfortunate.
On Judeo-Christians:
I'm talking about the more liberal brands of Judeo-Christians, the ones who like to picket and spew humanist garbage. In fact, liberals not even be religious, they must simply adhere to some stupid concept of morality.
That is what I was trying to say, you just seem to be able to word things better than me. I believe that we need to stray more and more away from the morals and ethics of the bible and create these things for ourselves. The bible cannot tell me what is right for me, and I think that it in essence hinders me because it plants those seeds in my head that I believe to be both morally and ethically wrong.
A
and2000x
Guest
Exactly, if any progress is to be made the bible (and the communist manifesto) need to go onto the burning pile.
Things can be approached in a non-moral way, but still apply concepts of good/bad (as socially positive/negative):
The homosexual issue is being approached in an idiotic manner. If two gays want to get married I don't think it's an issue, but in the reproductive outlook any promotion of homosexuality is wholly unacceptable.
My standpoint on females is that they ARE the mothers of the children and therefore should concentrate on raising their children instead of getting jobs and joining feminist groups. Male and female each have something unique to offer their child and when roles are confused society becomes decadent.
Things can be approached in a non-moral way, but still apply concepts of good/bad (as socially positive/negative):
The homosexual issue is being approached in an idiotic manner. If two gays want to get married I don't think it's an issue, but in the reproductive outlook any promotion of homosexuality is wholly unacceptable.
My standpoint on females is that they ARE the mothers of the children and therefore should concentrate on raising their children instead of getting jobs and joining feminist groups. Male and female each have something unique to offer their child and when roles are confused society becomes decadent.
you lazy bastard. next time you'll have to try harder. i'll cave to demonstrate my point.
how about spanking. if I spank my kid is it good or bad? what if i spank them and they grow up to murder the person who would have destroyed the world? do you think there is any relative good in any of that?
what about brocolli? to me, it used to be bad but now it's good.
what about abortion clinics? are they good or bad? i'll bet you'll get some fanatically insistent answers on that one.
what about capitalism? is it good or bad? what about this conversation? what about my motivation to make you think for yourself? which is it? good? bad?
what is good for you isn't necessarily good for me (since our tastes (in all things, laws, women, food, ad infinitum) differ)... wouldn't you agree?
the direct implication is that good and bad are relative. it's pretty much that simple.
No, when Hitler believed killing jews was good, to him and others like him, it was good. Regardless of our objections, it was good to them. I don't lack the ability to judge, it's easy to see. Why don't you take the example I gave and break them down on a case per case basis rather than make some silly incorrect blanket statement with no real bearing on much besides "what you think" - which is generally unimpressive.
Why don't you try for an actual argument rather than restating the same thing several times.
Let me ask you all:
If it I really think something is good, it IS good to me, right?
For instance, blowjobs. I have had a LOT of blowjobs performed on me and for chrissake man, they're good. I've cherished all but a few. Christian types are supposed to think blowjobs are bad. I'm sure many do. To me though, they have made my life better by relieving a lot of stress.
How can you deny the relative goodness?
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