When Does it Become Okay to Kill, to Satisfy Your Religious or Cultural Needs?

786 said:
You're the only one who thinks that the conviction was dependent on gender... both would be convicted for the same thing.

Secondly if the law was broken then that is illegal.. unfortunately the one breaking the law also became a victim... She was tried for her law breaking... unfortunate?
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Guys,

Muslim women are the VICTIMS here, in every sense of that term.

Those women have been bullied, brutalized and brainwashed for a thousand years. They have been forcibly forbidden to become educated about alternate ways of living their lives. They have been murdered for even daring to ask questions. Many of them have had their genitals mutilated when they were little girls (infibulation), to prevent them from enjoying orgasms as adults. They have been forced to hide beneath a burqua whenever they are in public... as if they were something evil and shameful that needed to be hidden from view. What do you expect them to do..? How the hell do you expect them to think..? How would YOU think if you were raised that way..? Muslim women do not "thrive on abuse;" they simply do not know any other way of life (and death).

The destruction of Islam would no doubt terrify most of those women... at first.
 
WillNever said:
IMPORTANT: All must watch at least the first five minutes of this video to understand the subject matter. However, I strongly recommend watching ALL of it. I warn you, the video contains images and videos of muslim men whipping the backs of crying, screaming women and stoning them to death.

The Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg6b5oS-TvQ


This video focuses on Indonesia, a predominantly muslim country that is forcefully imposing its majority religion onto christians throughout its providences. Many muslims in the USA claim that christians and jews are doing the very same thing to muslim-americans. However, as far as violence and cruelty are concerned, what similarities do the two paralleling phenomena actually share?

The topic of this thread is, does religion or culture make for an acceptable excuse for condoning violence and brutality to somebody on the basis of their sex or creed..? Is it a discredit to their religion when muslims attempt to impose sharia law on people who are adverse to changing..? Why do some muslims they insist on being treated under the standards of sharia law even when they are in a non-muslim country..?

Use this thread to comment, question, and discuss your ideas on the matter. Please only do so after having observed a portion of the video.
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IMHO, in defense such is acceptable. Defense against other memes that are not so enlightened, or which seek to enforce their meme on you. It's a simplification, of course, but it will do for a short answer.
 
WillNever said:
Guys,

The destruction of Islam would no doubt terrify most of those women... at first.
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Thanks for your opinions. the cultural effects on the people is what you are talking about.. Again I'm wrong though because you know very well what Islam says :shrug:

Oh and :wave:

Peace be unto you ;)
 
GeoffP said:
IMHO, in defense such is acceptable. Defense against other memes that are not so enlightened, or which seek to enforce their meme on you. It's a simplification, of course, but it will do for a short answer.
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Revitalizing this discussion due to recent events in the world.

Query: what do you mean by meme?
 
A meme (pronounced /ˈmiːm/, rhyming with "cream"[1]) is a postulated unit of cultural ideas, symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals or other imitable phenomena. (The etymology of the term relates to the Greek word μιμητισμός ([mɪmetɪsmos]) for "something imitated".)[2] Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes, in that they self-replicate and respond to selective pressures.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
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Any given religion could be considered a large and complex meme.
 
GeoffP said:
IMHO, in defense such is acceptable. Defense against other memes that are not so enlightened, or which seek to enforce their meme on you. It's a simplification, of course, but it will do for a short answer.
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Doesn't every meme include the sub-idea that it is more enlightened than other memes? I also noticed how competing memes, regardless of the relative strengths, seem to almost always view themselves as cornered by the other meme(s).
 
Very true. I think it would be extraordinarily noteworthy to see a meme that considers itself less enlightened or equally enlightened. Does anyone know of any? Or of any that assesses rationally its own flaws? In Buddhism, is one not free also to pursue other theologies, which (in extremis) one might argue is a rational appreciation of its own (theoretical) limitations? Such a concept would be near-unique, I think, and extraordinarily enlightened.

Which would also, ironically, invalidate the test that a meme consider itself less enlightened, but let's not worry about that now. ;)
 
GeoffP said:
Very true. I think it would be extraordinarily noteworthy to see a meme that considers itself less enlightened or equally enlightened. Does anyone know of any? Or of any that assesses rationally its own flaws? In Buddhism, is one not free also to pursue other theologies, which (in extremis) one might argue is a rational appreciation of its own (theoretical) limitations? Such a concept would be near-unique, I think, and extraordinarily enlightened.

Which would also, ironically, invalidate the test that a meme consider itself less enlightened, but let's not worry about that now. ;)
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There are 'carriers' of various memes who see other paths as, well, other paths. And figure there is a fit. But the texts of these religions - and I would include things like neo-conservatism, communism and a whole host of other systems in with religions - are pretty dogmatic.

I love the idea of a system that claims to be second rate. That belief alone would make it tempting to join.
 
doreen said:
Doesn't every meme include the sub-idea that it is more enlightened than other memes?
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Memes seem to be a confusing topic, at minimum.

Most memes contain no awareness of themselves as memes, or any rating of themselves as somehow intrinsically superior. The right hand thread rule in bolts and screws, expanded to jars and post hole diggers and all manner of stuff that involves rotational asymmetry, for example.
doreen said:
I love the idea of a system that claims to be second rate. That belief alone would make it tempting to join.
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Maybe try Zen Buddhism, in one of its more sophisticated incarnations.

willnever said:
IMPORTANT: All must watch at least the first five minutes of this video to understand the subject matter
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As soon as I see someone claim that I have to watch some video to understand what they are talking about, and they aren't talking about anything to do with video itself, I stop paying attention.
 
Honestly, i don't believe it is right to kill people to satify religious or cultural beliefs. I don't know what more i can say on this subject.
 
WillNever said:
Guys,

Muslim women are the VICTIMS here, in every sense of that term.

Those women have been bullied, brutalized and brainwashed for a thousand years. They have been forcibly forbidden to become educated about alternate ways of living their lives. They have been murdered for even daring to ask questions. Many of them have had their genitals mutilated when they were little girls (infibulation), to prevent them from enjoying orgasms as adults. They have been forced to hide beneath a burqua whenever they are in public... as if they were something evil and shameful that needed to be hidden from view. What do you expect them to do..? How the hell do you expect them to think..? How would YOU think if you were raised that way..? Muslim women do not "thrive on abuse;" they simply do not know any other way of life (and death).

The destruction of Islam would no doubt terrify most of those women... at first.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it any better than that
 
Pantherine said:
In some way i am, in others i'm not. Depends upon the crime commited, i believe the punishment should fit the crime. But in what culture are we talking of, American, Muslim, or another culture?
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why does the culture matter? :confused: The question was if you believed it was ok to kill for religious or cultural needs. (or something like that lol)

I think a cultural need is protecting its people. There are some people on death row that we need to be protected from. I'm ok with them being killed.
 
iceaura said:
Memes seem to be a confusing topic, at minimum.

Most memes contain no awareness of themselves as memes, or any rating of themselves as somehow intrinsically superior. The right hand thread rule in bolts and screws, expanded to jars and post hole diggers and all manner of stuff that involves rotational asymmetry, for example.
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Yes, many memes are like that. But others include self-referential ideas about themselves.
Maybe try Zen Buddhism, in one of its more sophisticated incarnations.
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I suppose ones where they do not hit you with a staff if you slouch while meditating. To me that has an implicit certainty to it. Where you have memes that are imparted with minimal language, as in some forms of Zen, a community can corrall or punish or shun behavior/people who do not match meme expectations. While there may be no proclamation of superiority, the end result for a practitioner is pretty much the same.
 
Considering the 'good christians' of the United States' track record over the last 300 years, I can only say that Jesus would be spinning in his grave.

We are the most prolific ( and cowardly ) 'terrorists' who have ever walked the face of the Earth.

Are there stupid, fanatical muslims? Sure. Just as there are stupid fanatics anywhere in the world.

Iran wants to build nuclear bombs. Can't imagine why ... You don't think they get a little frightened when stupid fanatics like Sarah Palin ( apparently the republican darling for our next president ) announce that we should declare war on Iran?

I wonder how the survivors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and all those cities we fire-bombed feel about the United States ... all those civilian men, women, and children we murdered. It fascinates me that americans continue to think we hold some kind of 'moral high ground'.

We fear everything. And we slaughter everything we fear. This country ... the United States ... is run by the greediest, most prolifically murderous religious fanatics on this planet.

We even 'eat our own'. Cool, isn't it, that we taxpayers just got ripped off for several trillions of dollars to 'bailout' the richest bastards on Earth. They divvyed up the money, threw millions out of their homes, and their jobs ... and now they are buying up all those foreclosed homes at dirt-cheap prices. I'm sure they will profit nicely selling them back to us.

America ... what a joke. I'm sickened, truly sickened by the fanatical, religious, patriotic ignorance we exhibit.

And we think we are 'civilized'. Too funny.
 
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how big can a meme be and still be considered a meme? when does it break down from a meme into a definition or even letters? I wonder if a single Chinese character could be a meme?
 
Michael said:
how big can a meme be and still be considered a meme? when does it break down from a meme into a definition or even letters? I wonder if a single Chinese character could be a meme?
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I would think those are memes, absolutely.

I think a religion is a bunch of memes. Think of it as a family of memes.

We all have one of these families we think we believe in - though some are not religions in the strict sense.
 
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