When do we say "enough"

[top mosker]

Getting a little local...
In the paper today, there is an article about hidden cameras on my college campus. Over 80 cameras already exist for "homeland security purposes" and with plans to have "cameras in every building."

the article is at:
UNR's camera network raises fear
Hidden cameras used three times since fall 2003

Really.... I think it has gone too far this time. Anyone have similar stories at their schools? Is big brother watching you too?

 

[lixluke]

It's just the beginning. Do you actually believe it's going to lessen?

 

[Perfect]

This pisses me off.

Not only the fact, that fat fucks with security fetishes sit on their asses
busting pot smokers as terrorists. But also posts like this with an outraged
student venting frustration in a medium that’s not even real. You want
something done about these peeping toms, then just do it.


What you must do is take a baseball bat and systematically go around the campus fucking those security cameras up. You can glamorize the effect with cool shades and a cigarette.

 

[Baron Max]

I have mixed feelings about it. I mean, it's a public place, thousands of people see you and what you're doing anyway. What does it matter that a few more "public people" see you?

I don't like the "idea" of being on camera all the time, but that's just a inner sense, its not like there's anything illegal about it. I've had my picture taken by those silly-assed cell-phone cameras, too. I don't like it, but why don't I like it? I mean, I'm there ....I'm "scenery", right?

I don't know ...mixed feelings.

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

What you must do is take a baseball bat and systematically go around the campus fucking those security cameras up.

So you're advocating that people take the law into their own hands? ...like the lynch mobs of the old west? Surely violence against a private property isn't the answer, is it? Oh, surely not.

Baron Max

 

[Crimson_Scribe]

Let me get this straight: A swastika was scrawled on the door, and that's grounds to install a bunch of cameras?

 

[Perfect]

So you're advocating that people take the law into their own hands? ...like the lynch mobs of the old west? Surely violence against a private property isn't the answer, is it? Oh, surely not.

Baron Max

Well guy, who the fuck are you going to call about this? The cops?
And before you say “you shouldn’t call anyone about this, it’s just the government protecting you”. Bear in mind that there are no universal rules that being in top of the stairs, where you make decisions concerning the way society works, renders you immune in being a total fucking nutcase.

Yes I am saying take the law to your own hands. There are some aspects in life that are dependant on you taking control.


edit: When you are living in a campus, it is your home. Someone nails a bunch of surveillance equipment to my flat, I’m sure to go on removal frenzy. And I don’t care that I’m renting.


There were many unbelievable characteristics in Nazi Germany also, but I doubt you’d find it hard to object to those- with force.

 

[cato]

So you're advocating that people take the law into their own hands?

did King or X wait until they decided to stop oppressing black people? you have to fight unjust laws "openly and lovingly".
my suggestion is to get a news crew, or big enough group of people to get media attention, and just go around putting post-its on the cameras until you cause conflict. then just get the word out about the conflict, and insight people all around the country to follow your lead.

 

[Baron Max]

Yes I am saying take the law to your own hands. There are some aspects in life that are dependant on you taking control.

Well, that's all I wanted to know.

And by your remarks/reply, I'm assuming that you advocate that same personal-control for anyone and everyone who finds something that upsets them, right? Or are you advocating that for ONLY you?

If Osama bin Ladin decides to take the law into his own hands, you approve that? And Zarquiwi in Iraq? And that guy in Atlanta just recently? ...and any number of such instances? Is that really what you're advocating?

Well guy, who the fuck are you going to call about this?

I'd be williing to bet that there are legal avenues for you or anyone to take on this issue. For one, the news media might enjoy talking to you. But have you even tried before you advocated the violence and property damage?

Baron Max

 

[Perfect]

Well, that's all I wanted to know.

And by your remarks/reply, I'm assuming that you advocate that same personal-control for anyone and everyone who finds something that upsets them, right? Or are you advocating that for ONLY you?

If Osama bin Ladin decides to take the law into his own hands, you approve that? And Zarquiwi in Iraq? And that guy in Atlanta just recently? ...and any number of such instances? Is that really what you're advocating?

You’re seriously defending inane spying which only reflects paranoia?
And busting a few security modules doesn’t need to be categorized with Osamas and guys from Atlanta.

And of course I’m advocating it for me. There might be others that share my view on this, but mainly for me none the less. There may be conditions that awakens the altruist in me and then I will inform the general consciousness on what I’m about to do, but blinding a few cam’s don’t fall under that category

And I don’t care how many bad looks I would get. If I had an opportunity to destroy every television, mobile phone, computer in the world, I would do it.

The decay of modern world is not a plane trough a building; it is you, behind a screen switching between two links, one has lesbian porn, and the other some ramblings about how horrible it is to fuck up a few spying gadgets.

I'd be williing to bet that there are legal avenues for you or anyone to take on this issue. For one, the news media might enjoy talking to you. But have you even tried before you advocated the violence and property damage?

Just how they asked the people who live in the campus how they would feel about obese out-of-work police men jerking off to panty shots with the help of a few security cameras?

 

[Xev]

Anyone have similar stories at their schools? Is big brother watching you too?

I've not heard of any, but the University of Michigan is very (sometimes disgustingly) liberal and would probably not take such measures "in defense of homeland security"
However, a friend's apartment complex has them in the main lobby and a few other places.

I personally dislike them. You get that creepy Jeremy-Bentham panopticium feeling from them. Surveillence is not a pleasant thing, and it's quite disturbing that others find it a comfort.

Although the utility of destroying them is questionable.
One risks substantial jail time and or fines, and they would simply be rebuilt.
There may be a more clever and subversive way to interfere with their operation.

On the other hand, if they were opposed and smashed all the time, then it would not be economically feasible for buildings to install them. Smashing a few would not be a good choice, but if a substantial number of people destroyed them or at least interfered with their operation, it would be a good choice.

 

[Baron Max]

I don't think anyone has fully explained what harm the cameras do? I mean, if there in a public place, there won't be any "panty shots" or such voyeuristic use. But cameras in those locations are already banned and illegal.

What harm do those cameras do?

I just don't get it. I don't "like" them, but I don't like lots of things. It gives me a creepy feeling when the cameras are so obvious, but...? Is "I don't like 'em!" good enough to force others not to use them? Or for people to destroy private/public property? And if so, what else don't you like?

What harm do those cameras do? ...to anyone?

Baron Max

 

[Xev]

They fucking irk the shit out of me.
They encourage society's degeneration into a vapid amalgam.

"And if so, what else don't you like?"

Weaklings and degenerates.

Haven't you got the balls to impose your aesthetic vision upon the world?
In a world of 6 billion and counting, can you afford not to?

--
.

 

[-Bob-]

What harm do those cameras do? ...to anyone?

Baron Max

Absolutely nothing so far, unless you happen to be a paranoid freak. And they're hidden too, right?

We have a real fetish for voyeurism in this society, movies like the Truman show and the thousands of porn sites designed to cater to our needs. Who doesn't like to watch other people as they walk down the street, or in a public place? With the pleasure that we derive out of watching people, a fear comes to us in equal measure. We equate surveilance with power, and like the prisoners in the panopticon, who cannot see their guards, we also invent imaginary monsters who we believe are looking at us. Thats the only reason the cameras bother us.

 

[Perfect]

I don't think anyone has fully explained what harm the cameras do? I mean, if there in a public place, there won't be any "panty shots" or such voyeuristic use. But cameras in those locations are already banned and illegal.

And I don’t think you realize the implications and the ramifications that abundantly created rules and restrictions offer.
And I know you will point out that restrictions are not always harmful. Sure they aren’t always harmful, but to deprive features from human behaviour just to strengthen a false sense of security is pointless. And let’s face it; this assurance of terror free tomorrow is ridiculous if you think colleges produce the next line of human bombs.

The facet of human behaviour is in risk of modifying itself into something rather aversive.
People are such pussies already, that being aware of the fact that there are others aware of you, 24/7, is something that alters our behaviour. And this (in my opinion) is not worth the sacrifice that false premises offered by excessive security can offer.

What harm do those cameras do?

I just don't get it. I don't "like" them, but I don't like lots of things. It gives me a creepy feeling when the cameras are so obvious, but...? Is "I don't like 'em!" good enough to force others not to use them? Or for people to destroy private/public property? And if so, what else don't you like?

What harm do those cameras do? ...to anyone?

Baron Max

Good boy, now start practicing walking around with that creepy feeling, you’d better start getting used to it.

I will rather concentrate in removing shit that affects negatively to my existence. I’m not going to bow down to every fucked up ‘improvement’ that takes place directly affecting my life.

Sit little doggie, sit!

 

[Xev]

We equate surveilance with power, and like the prisoners in the panopticon, who cannot see their guards, we also invent imaginary monsters who we believe are looking at us. Thats the only reason the cameras bother us.

It's unnecessary to feel that their intentions are malevolent.
It is sufficiant to know that we are being watched.

As Sartre would say, we're frozen by their Gaze.
It's also unnecessary to adopt his epistemology to feel uncomfortable with that.

The expansion of police power would be disturbing enough. But police power is a second step for these things. The first is simply that over-expansion of the socius, the knowledge that our actions are being watched, scrutinized and judged.

 

[Perfect]

The expansion of police power would be disturbing enough. But police power is a second step for these things. The first is simply that over-expansion of the socius, the knowledge that our actions are being watched, scrutinized and judged.

Exactly, just think of Germany during Nazism. Or the KGB.
Antagonists of popular ideology knew there were people observing, searching for them. And it did scar them; not momentarily either.
And I know that it’s not meant to disclose any specific group with these security cameras, but I for one would choose to despise the whole idea of them which would make me the ‘target audience’. An essential part of my functioning would change.

And the more important point is that the general populous easily augments to a fashion that is designed to ‘pollute’ the general consciousness.
Your neighbour is a dirty Jew so you decisively inform the authorities. An action adopted as the proper course.

It’s a hazardous business modifying beliefs and codes of conduct for the masses.

 

[Baron Max]

Well, with all those great arguments, y'all could take this to court and have all of the cameras removed permanently by a new and wonderful Constitutionally legal law.

So why don't y'all do that instead of complain, bitch n' moan on an Internet forum where it will do virtually no good?

Baron Max

 

[-Bob-]

The expansion of police power would be disturbing enough. But police power is a second step for these things. The first is simply that over-expansion of the socius, the knowledge that our actions are being watched, scrutinized and judged.

But, why should the mere knowledge that you are being watched be so disturbing? What exactly is disturbing about it?

When I am in a crowd, I adapt my behavior to the crowd because I know my actions are under public scrutiny. This effect I might find to be either calming or disturbing, depending on the circumstances. Depending on how malicious the crowd is, and on how guilty I am.

So it boils down to whether or not you actually feel threatened by the crowd. In this particular case, I do not. The man behind the desk is probably just some tired security guard, busy doing his crossword puzzle or eating his donut. To him I'm just one of many indistinguishable faces, the idea that my behavior is being scrutinized is a total joke. And if I had to be in jail, I might even prefer the panopticon. At least in that case the gaze of the guards could only comfort me and provide protection from my fellow inmates.

But at the moment, with our voyeuristic fetish and our guilty pleasures, we are more likely to see our own reflection on the other side of the camera and fear it.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Big deal, it's school.
We used to have 4 or 5 surveilance cameras squarely focussed on the skatepark, which is a place where you actually want to do bad things.
We still did. You can find blindspots. Took a few people getting busted for things for us to figure where all the camera's where. One was like kilometre's away on a tower in the city and they said it could read the print on a newspaper at the skatepark. Don't know if that was true.
It was kind of cool, they were monitored by the guy who sold parking tickets, so you could check out the scene at the skatepark through his window while you were down town.