Whats up with Chemtrails?

I think chemtrails is a name of contrails in german. And contrails are mix of hot humid exhaust air and environment air...and results at specific pressure and temperature...

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http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/contrail.html
 
draqon said:
And contrails are mix of hot humid exhaust air and environment air...and results at specific pressure and temperature
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No exhaust required, if the atmospheric conditions are correct. Bomber pilots in WWII new this to their cost, fighter planes could follow contrails to their target.
 
Xach said:
I really do not remember saying control at all. I said change wich is basicly manipulation or really to manipulate something..
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We cannot change the weather. We cannot make a clear day cloudy, or a windy day calm.

We can make a cloud that is about to rain, rain, sometimes. Big deal.

The rumour that the weather can be controlled via Ionospheric heating is bogus too. We can heat the Ionosphere a bit, but with weather, there is that problematic 'butterfly effect' so change, and control, are impossible at this point. We've only recently got good at predicting the weather, a necessity for control.
 
"It would be ignorant to believe that if you know about cloud seeding it must be the only weather manipulation available. I'm sure there are hundreds of things hidden from us about weather manipulation."

Since most everything that the government knows they do not tell us it is quite possible that they can change the weather, and just like not telling us about the latest weaponry they have, keep it a secret.

Source: Wikipedia - Weather Control
"1977 Environmental Modification Convention
Weather control, as well as "weather tampering", are expressly forbidden dating from at least December 10, 1976, when the "United Nations General Assembly Resolution 31/72, TIAS 9614 Convention[13] on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques" was adopted. The Convention was: Signed in Geneva May 18, 1977; Entered into force October 5, 1978; Ratification by U.S. President December 13, 1979; U.S. ratification deposited at New York January 17, 1980.[14]"

So, I don't think they had a convention so that people would not make it rain harder.

And since condensation in German is Kondensation and condense is Kondensieren Chemtrails must stand for Chemical trails.

Phlogistician please site your source on the WWII bombers I would like to read it.
 
Xach said:
"Since most everything that the government knows they do not tell us it is quite possible that they can change the weather, and just like not telling us about the latest weaponry they have, keep it a secret.
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There are several large radars capable of heating the Ionosphere, but they are not capable of weather control. This I know because I used to know some PhD physicists who used such equipment (CUTLASS). It's used for Ionospheric research, and for 'over the horizon' RADAR viewing.

From the HAARP faq;

Is HAARP a classified project?
HAARP is not classified. There are no classified documents pertaining to HAARP. The Environmental Impact Process (EIP) documents have always been, are now, and will always be completely descriptive of the program in its entirety. The EIP documents are a matter of public record.

So, no secret weather control.
 
wasn't there a big study of effects on comtrails on the weather after 9/11? (Since all the planes over the US were grounded, they got a clean slate.)
 
Really when I mentioned the ionosphere and cloud seeding I did not mean to embark on a long conversation about it. It was just that some posts were saying its ether they are all contrails or you are crazy.

I was trying to mention the Information that the science channel presented and did not mean to relate ionosphere with contrails. Since rain seeding and ionosphere were mentioned i simply thought that chemtrails could be used to change the environment (NOT that they are or have anything to do with the ionosphere or cloud seeding).

When i want to have a discussion about the ionosphere I will call it "The Discussion on Ionosphere Manipulation."

So the next time i have to write three paragraphs to reply to any Ionosphere or rain seeding posts I'm going to shoot the bunny.


I did not think that anyone would really post on it at all. It was poor judgment on my part please forgive me. (Funny thing though the day i wrote this I saw contrails and and its been raining ever since.)

Now, though, that you are here.

How is it that a Contrail can last in the air for hours on end and why is it that on the same day ill see long our contrails and short contrails that last only seconds?

I need you to know also that I DO believe that there are REAL contrails and fake ones.
 
Xach said:
Really when I mentioned the ionosphere and cloud seeding I did not mean to embark on a long conversation about it. It was just that some posts were saying its ether they are all contrails or you are crazy.

I was trying to mention the Information that the science channel presented and did not mean to relate ionosphere with contrails. Since rain seeding and ionosphere were mentioned i simply thought that chemtrails could be used to change the environment (NOT that they are or have anything to do with the ionosphere or cloud seeding).

When i want to have a discussion about the ionosphere I will call it "The Discussion on Ionosphere Manipulation."

So the next time i have to write three paragraphs to reply to any Ionosphere or rain seeding posts I'm going to shoot the bunny.


I did not think that anyone would really post on it at all. It was poor judgment on my part please forgive me. (Funny thing though the day i wrote this I saw contrails and and its been raining ever since.)

Now, though, that you are here.

How is it that a Contrail can last in the air for hours on end and why is it that on the same day ill see long our contrails and short contrails that last only seconds?

I need you to know also that I DO believe that there are REAL contrails and fake ones.
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Fake ones???? You've got some serious explaining to do to cover THAT one!!!

As to different lengths and times of persistance - that's VERY easy. It's nothing more than a function of altitude - which is something that a ground-based unaided observer cannot determine with any accuracy at all.
 
Yes I just thought of altitude just now too (I was researching and saw that someone mentioned it).

Google:
Fake - something that is a counterfeit; not what it seems to be
Counterfeit - forge: make a copy of with the intent to deceive; "he faked the signature"; "they counterfeited dollar bills"; "She forged a Green Card"

So, the fake ones would be any of them that would contain chemicals and not be contrails but would be chemtrails. So, they would be fake or, better to say, false, counterfeit, or forged contrails.

Really we've just got to say this now. And that is that neither of us have the money to rent the plane to test the contrails of other planes.

There is a reason that I'm so interested in this, and that is health. I would like to know what is in the chemtrails so that I can figure a way to counter the affects of the harmful substance (if there is one).

I know that there are contrails and that it seems to make total since that they could make majority of trails from planes. After researching JFK, the lunar landings, Oklahoma city bombings, and the events at 9/11. It seems that this government (and all governments) tells a lot of half truths if not lies to its people.

So, this leaves me in a position to spend all of my extra time trying to put the piece of the mystery together.

The most important thing here is that I am not some activist trying to get people together to reform the government. So, when I say government I'm not trying to insinuate reform and do not think anyone should do so. I just like to know information to understand why there is so much cancer and disease. And, of course, there are many other questions that need to be answered then that.

Also I'm not some anarchist nut. I have respect for those who fought in war. I have a grandfather that fought in Vietnam. He has become very emotional now and has one of, I think, every gun. But ill never forget what he said to me one time "You know Zach, when I was 19 I would have fought and died for my country..... but now.... I don't think I would."

Anyway we would have to agree to disagree. There is no way I can prove myself to be right, or, frankly, you can. Its just not possible for any of us to obtain the equipment needed to test either theory.
 
Xach said:
Anyway we would have to agree to disagree. There is no way I can prove myself to be right, or, frankly, you can. Its just not possible for any of us to obtain the equipment needed to test either theory.
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Sure, I understand what "fake" means - that wasn't my point at all - it's the probability of fake ones even existing that I was questioning. And you said you were certain they existed - my question is HOW do you know they exist? You've just admitted in the quote above that you lack the equipment to test for it - so WHAT makes you so sure of them?????

Yes, we can agree to disagree because that's the only way this can go with your misguided belief.

And frankly, as you just said, I've no need or inclination to prove that they don't exist. That would be a fool's mission anyway - trying to disprove the existence of ANYTHING. No sane person would even attempt such a thing.

The biggest problem with your idea is the same one that's present in every single large conspiracy theory - the fact that hundreds or possibly thousands of people would have to be involved in such an endeavor and every single one of them would have to be sworn to total silence. That simply cannot happen in such a large group.
 
Xach said:
Funny thing though the day i wrote this I saw contrails and and its been raining ever since ....
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Why is that funny? Do you understand what contrails are made of? Water vapour. What is rain made of? Oh, the same. Damp air makes contrails, they are effectively clouds made by the turbulence from aircraft. Natures makes clouds from damp air too, and then it rains sometimes.

How is it that a Contrail can last in the air for hours on end and why is it that on the same day ill see long our contrails and short contrails that last only seconds?
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Atmospheric conditions. It depends on lots of factors, ambient temperature, air pressure/altitude, the humidity of the air, and wind speed.

If the air is dry, ie low humidity, a jet contrail will dissipate quickly, as nature likes to even things out and the moisture will spread.

If it's humid up there, the air already contains it's fair share of moisture, and cannot take much more from the area of the contrail, so the contrail stays as it is for much longer.

There are no 'fake' contrails, unless you are at an air show, watching an aerobatic display team. They use a variety of devices to make smoke, not least diesel oil released into the jet exhaust.
 
phlogistician said:
Why is that funny? Do you understand what contrails are made of? Water vapour. What is rain made of? Oh, the same. Damp air makes contrails, they are effectively clouds made by the turbulence from aircraft. Natures makes clouds from damp air too, and then it rains sometimes.



Atmospheric conditions. It depends on lots of factors, ambient temperature, air pressure/altitude, the humidity of the air, and wind speed.

If the air is dry, ie low humidity, a jet contrail will dissipate quickly, as nature likes to even things out and the moisture will spread.

If it's humid up there, the air already contains it's fair share of moisture, and cannot take much more from the area of the contrail, so the contrail stays as it is for much longer.

There are no 'fake' contrails, unless you are at an air show, watching an aerobatic display team. They use a variety of devices to make smoke, not least diesel oil released into the jet exhaust.
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I have to wonder, Phlo, if there's any point in our explaining all this. You are quite correct, of course, but I've yet to see ANY conspiracy theory nut get talked out of his/her favorite fantasy. All the logic and facts in the world just don't seem to penetrate. :shrug:
 
Read-Only said:
I have to wonder, Phlo, if there's any point in our explaining all this. You are quite correct, of course, but I've yet to see ANY conspiracy theory nut get talked out of his/her favorite fantasy. All the logic and facts in the world just don't seem to penetrate. :shrug:
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Like they say, "You can't reason with the unreasonable"

... so probably little point debating the woowoos, but you never know who is watching. A well reasoned argument may sway some fence sitters towards reason.

The general lack of understanding of even basic science astounds me often though, and that can be frustrating. I guess science is harder to understand that made up BS, so the BS has an appeal for the lazy.
 
Hello its me the original poster. In the 4 years since I started this thread I have thought of a few other possibilities.

A high energy beam ,similar to the type being developed for beaming energy from space based solar arrays back to Earth, would be able to evaporate a substantial amount of water to form clouds if desired. This would probably not be ready yet but when developed would be a fairly potent weather modifier.

Also if this cloud (or any regular clouds) were charged with extra electrical energy it might be a useful distraction in a war(or just to sway the opinion of a country and potentially avoid war).Since a large continuous electrical storm would be a fairly imposing spectical.
 
dinokg said:
Hello its me the original poster. In the 4 years since I started this thread I have thought of a few other possibilities.

A high energy beam ,similar to the type being developed for beaming energy from space based solar arrays back to Earth, would be able to evaporate a substantial amount of water to form clouds if desired. This would probably not be ready yet but when developed would be a fairly potent weather modifier.

Also if this cloud (or any regular clouds) were charged with extra electrical energy it might be a useful distraction in a war(or just to sway the opinion of a country and potentially avoid war).Since a large continuous electrical storm would be a fairly imposing spectical.
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Fantasy, just pure fantasy. I suspect you have no concept of the huge amount of energy needed to to do that. It would probably take the combined output of several multi-megawatt commercial power generator plants to even begin to have such an effect.
 
Just to amplify on that a bit, suppose you evaporate one half inch of water from a lake. It takes the total average influx of solar radiation over the area of the lake for something on the order of a day and a half to supply the energy required.
 
I am talking about massive 10 mile wide+ solar charging arrays. These would be more then large enough to get the needed energy if you include the bonus energy you get by not having atmospheric reduction of the initial sunlight.
Its a kind of technology that we will have when we eventually are a type 1 civilization instead of are current type 0.8+/-

Much like this but more advanced http://physorg.com/news117649731.html
 
dinokg said:
I am talking about massive 10 mile wide+ solar charging arrays. These would be more then large enough to get the needed energy if you include the bonus energy you get by not having atmospheric reduction of the initial sunlight.
Its a kind of technology that we will have when we eventually are a type 1 civilization instead of are current type 0.8+/-

Much like this but more advanced http://physorg.com/news117649731.html
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You are still just pipe-dreaming. As pointed out in that article, it would be FAR too expensive for something we actually NEED vs your idea of controlling the weather.

There will never be enough energy available to do what you are proposing. We need all we can get for other, more practical purposes.
 
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