What's the point of this forum?

G

Grey Seal

Guest
Does this forum have a point? Is there any reason for this forum to be kept open? Anything and everything I see posted on this forum has been said before, it's simply regurgitated and painted a different color. Other topics such as Science or Free Thoughts have new things, new ideas. This Religion forum is the same shit, over and over. Look at every title from the beguinning to the end. This forum could have been closed months ago and you'd be in the same spot you are now. No new information/topics/ideas have been shared. Why is that? My opinion is that nothing new has come about because religion is and has been dead for quite some time. There hasn't been anything new. The only thing new about religion is Mormonism and other bogus neo religions like it. Sure they've found relics or this or that, but honestly, what "revelations" have come from that? All of the old school religions are fighting with and fondling the scraps that they were left thousands of years ago; reading and re-reading them trying to read between lines that are too close together to be read between. After this many years there is nothing new. These are meaningless discussions/arguments that always end up in the same damned place. Sure they were good and interesting when they were new and had something interesting to share, but for chrissake there's nothing new, nothing different. The only obvious point of this forum is for religious zealots, teenage depressed wannabe atheists, 40 year old wannabe enlightened/knowledgable nobodies, and confused degenerates to kill time and feel important (which column do i fall under? I'm killing time, but it's dying far too slow). Other forums are fresh, interesting, new. This is an argument between schoolchildren about who is the best wrestler and why; arguing wholeheartedly about a "professional sport" that is and always has been scripted, fabricated.
 
point of this forum..?

oh, whenever you feel pissed off come here and abuse what is generally called God.. sometimes you get some intellectual discussions and glimpses too. that again depends on your luck.
 
Originally posted by Grey Seal
Sure they were good and interesting when they were new and had something interesting to share, but for chrissake there's nothing new, nothing different.
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There are new people to the forum, and the discussions are new to them. This makes the forum useful.

The only obvious point of this forum is for religious zealots, teenage depressed wannabe atheists, 40 year old wannabe enlightened/knowledgable nobodies, and confused degenerates to kill time and feel important (which column do i fall under?
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IMO, the point of this forum is to discuss religion with a good dose of reality (science and logic). Also, it's a good place to transfer threads from other forums that start to drift away from science into a religious debate.
 
"What's the point of this forum?"

Originally posted by Grey Seal
The only obvious point of this forum is for religious zealots,
teenage depressed wannabe atheists, 40 year old wannabe
enlightened/knowledgable nobodies, and confused
degenerates to kill time and feel important
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What's the point of insulting people?
 
Its true though. Every single threat of this forum seems to degenerate into a pet the arguments between atheists and a faithful.
 
Religion represents an obscene stranglehold on the minds of billions of people. It is a considerable force against reason and scientific progress. It has been and continues to be one of the major stumbling blocks to truth and enlightenment for the human race. If the devil in the form of evil really existed then his real name would be God. The vast religious networks around the world are responsible for the spreading of overwhelming subversive propaganda, irrationality and fatalist false hopes. This miss-information is absorbed by a largely gullible world population and significantly inhibits real progress towards solving real problems. This has been the reality for millennia and something I consider probably the greatest evil mankind has ever had to face.

Within this light it should be clear that there is a considerable and massive battle taking place across the world. As anti-religionists, atheists, freethinkers, secular humanists, transhumanists, etc. finally begin to discover each other primarily due to the internet then we can only now begin to see the start of a new revolution and the inevitable destruction of religious irrationality.

Don’t you think this warrants some debate?
 
Alive and kicking

Originally posted by Grey Seal
Does this forum have a point? Is there any reason for this forum to be kept open? Anything and everything I see posted on this forum has been said before, it's simply regurgitated and painted a different color.
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Why did you post here? Why did you bother with continuing beyond your premise to assert your opinion regarding religion? I suggest that within your desire to publicly express your opinion lies the primary reason this forum and those like it exist.

No philosophical argument is every really over. Even historically well worn arguments are new to those who are discovering them for the first time and there are always new points to consider.

As far as religion being dead, I suggest that you take another look at society and history. Religion is constantly being reinterpreted, practices and beliefs change, and even God has been redefined. Most of the 6+ billion people on this planet hold some sort of religious conviction, many to the point where they would die for their beliefs. Religion has a daily influence on almost every facet of society; from politics to education to science. It has a daily influence in the personal lives of almost everyone on the planet, from the indoctrination of children to the prayers of the dying.

And while I concur that much of what constitutes religion is archaic, outmoded, and poorly realized it is impossible to reject the importance it holds for most of the world. Religion and faith fill some basic need that exists in all of us and it will not be altered by refusing to discuss it, if religion is to change the needs that it fulfills must be met within some other paradigm. It is the responsibility of those of us who find religion problematic, dangerous, and/or obsolete to voice our concerns and help to find a new paradigm.

To declare religion dead and not worth discussing demonstrates a dangerous naïveté on your part.

~Raithere
 
Edgar,

Dont worry chris, you and your ideas will never prevail agasint the bible.
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Why do you think I am worried?

As man’s knowledge continues its inexorable and exponential increase we see the relevance of the bible diminish in direct proportion. But you are right there is always likely to be those irrational few who will rail against the inevitable.
 
I have to agree with Grey Seal

Sweet bugger all happens in the religion section here anymore, its the same old arguements with the same old avoidence tactics or pig headed views from the same old dickheads.

As far as im concerned Cris has a point... the more intelligent the race of people.. the more questions they ask ....the less likely they are to place faith in the bible.
I saw a program on tv once that said...Education has a direct relationship with a belief in the bibles authenticity.

People need something to believe in, all our laws are built around the bibles beliefs, its not like you will ever be allowed to disprove the bible without dire consequences to our fundemental social structure and well being on many levels.

This religion section in sciforums in growing old fast... so yes i agree... we need fresh blood, fresh thought.. and more open minds.
 
Originally posted by Gifted
Its true though. Every single threat of this forum seems to degenerate into a pet the arguments between atheists and a faithful.
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thank you

Originally posted by Jade Squirrel


IMO, the point of this forum is to discuss religion with a good dose of reality (science and logic).
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hrmm, religion with a good dose of logic. i'd like to see how those 2 trains can go before colliding.

i liked your response cris

raithere: maybe i went in the wrong direction, maybe i said something i shouldn't have. i strayed. my beef isn't against the world of religious discussion, but simply this forum and all like it. the posts on this forum all seem to end in the same place. there is and hasn't been anything new. it's dead. is it the people? I don't know, but it sure seems like it's the same half-retarded monkies slinging the same year-old rock hard shit, ducking, and then throwing it back. something is stale and it's not the crutons.

razz made a good point of it.
 
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these forums would be absolutely useless without god and jesus involved; it's what makes a religious forum, anyway.
what else would u do- toast little green men and chant buddha?
 
Originally posted by firingseeds
these forums would be absolutely useless without god
and jesus involved; it's what makes a religious forum,
anyway. what else would u do- toast little green men
and chant buddha?
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"Fed up with seeing and hearing the secular world around you? Distracted by attractive young people in temptingly tight clothes? Despairing at the sinful nature of co-workers? Horrified at the anti-christian teaching of evolution and critical thinking?"

Worry no more! The Bible Harness is now available.
 
Originally posted by Grey Seal
my beef isn't against the world of religious discussion, but simply this forum and all like it. the posts on this forum all seem to end in the same place. there is and hasn't been anything new. it's dead. is it the people? I don't know, but it sure seems like it's the same half-retarded monkies slinging the same year-old rock hard shit, ducking, and then throwing it back. something is stale and it's not the crutons.
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Certainly there is quite a bit of repetition and indeed from time to time we seem to be infected with fanatics (religious or otherwise) for whom debate seems to be inane repetition and circular argument. Another issue is the turnover of participants; those with little to say usually stay just long enough to give us the measure of their 'wisdom' and leave. Generally, we pull the soapbox out from underneath their feet quickly enough but there is always another one to take their place.

Personally, I find the persistence of certain arguments disturbing from a sociological perspective. To wit: I have to bring out the hammer against the creationist or ID argument every month or so and while I realize that it is not likely that I've ever changed the opinion of my opponent I am more concerned with the lurkers whose beliefs are perhaps not so polarized. It has also given me the opportunity to hone my arguments; I no longer fumble with a point by point defense of evolution but can quickly excise the central errors in the argument and reveal them for what they are.

There is, however, a deeper core of participants that bring lucid and valid points to discussion. This is, alas, a public forum and as with any public media it takes a little effort and persistence to separate the chaff from the wheat. Over time I've come to recognize the central players, those with strong and original ideas... the 'must read' posts. I'm also often able to recognize those topics that will be fruitful and interesting vs those that offer little substance. In the end it's simply a matter of discretion; discerning which discussions are worth my time and which are not. In this, this forum is like any other media; books, television, movies, what-have-you most of them are not worth my time, some have only entertainment value but little to no substance and only the remaining ones are truly worth committing a substantial amount of time and consideration to.

IMO the dross is a necessary part of the process of producing something valuable, a necessary by-product if you will. For every significant movie there are 100 hack jobs, for every book or TV show there are 1000 that are worthless tripe. Still, one should not ignore the dreck completely for sometimes there are gems or poisons hidden within.

~Raithere
 
Thanks Raithere, tis always a pleasure to read your posts.
 
Originally posted by Grey Seal
my beef isn't against the world of religious discussion, but simply this forum and all like it.
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Your options seem pretty straight forward:
  • elevate the discussion
  • leave the discussion
  • whine about the discussion
Since I do not recall cases where you've chosen the first, it's unclear to me why having you choose the second would constitute much of a loss for either of us. Given this, your apparent commitment to the third would seem of little import.
 
what if in a hypothetical situation it would be physically impossible to accomplish the first option, to elevate the level of discussion on the topic of religion?

What if all levels of discussions on this topic basically have the same quality?
 
Originally posted by Raithere
It has also given me the opportunity to hone my arguments;
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This is another good point. And I must say, I've learned a lot of my honing techniques from you. As Cris said, it's a pleasure to read your posts. :)
 
Experience

Thank you Chris, it is always a pleasure to read yours. In fact, most of the time, I don't even feel a need to post in a topic you're covering because you've already said what I would better than I can. Indeed, you are one of those must read's that I was referring to.

Jade Squirrel: Thank you too, yours is a voice that I have quickly come to respect.


Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
what if in a hypothetical situation it would be physically impossible to accomplish the first option, to elevate the level of discussion on the topic of religion?

What if all levels of discussions on this topic basically have the same quality?
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My smart-ass response is, 'If you cannot elevate the discussion, bash them in the head'.

But honestly, I wonder why you even suggest this. There are many different discussions here at many different levels (often even within the same thread); anyone may participate at any level they wish (for the most part). It's not a matter of elevating others as much as it is elevating your own response.

For instance: I might reply to every ID argument with derision and scorn, or I may offer a proper counter argument. A theist may explain what it is they receive from their faith or they may call us sinners and consign us to hell. Personally, I attempt to set the tone of my posts to influence the response of the person(s) I am conversing with... it is manipulative, but what is not?

Although I already had a proclivity for it, I've been influenced by Tiassa in this regard. There are aspects of the religious experience that simply cannot be denied, needs that religion fulfills that are not met otherwise for most people. I believe there is a common ground that both paradigms can share but it requires some effort from both directions.

Literalist interpretations, on both sides, need to be loosened. While this is rather obvious (although oft-ignored) when it comes to religious doctrine, it is almost never addressed from the scientific perspective. We do not live in a purely mechanistic universe and to strive for a purely deterministic perspective seems to me to be ignoring certain realities of both the Universe and humanity. We interpret the world through the conceptual filters we have defined, the models we have built for that purpose. One model may be more or less reliable than another but to ignore the fact that it is still a model is to found belief in error.

There is an ineffable quality to conscious experience that, even if we are eventually able to find the causal conditions, cannot be dismissed. Which leads me to another realization I feel that atheists need to make; true religion is (if we are right) an anthropomorphic projection of the self upon the world. To define it as valueless is not only offensive to the believer but ignorant on our part.

For instance; despite what I may think of the real value of prayer how can I not be moved by a heartfelt plea for the life of a sick child? Who has not felt the Earth shake with the depth of their own rage, love, or despair? Our experience and emotion are a part of our conceptual world. The expression of God is an expression of something that we all should be able feel. And while I think that atheism is closer to the literal truth than most religious conceptions of God I also feel that the experience of religion is closer to the literal truth than the reduction to mechanical determinism.

~Raithere
 
Dr. Raithere, I love you so intensely....never leave this site....and don't ever hesitate to bash me in the head.
 
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