(Q) said:
lol Q
What's the Difference?
- Thread starter PsychoticEpisode
- Start date
lol Q
I'm trying not to laugh but some people are suggesting that I'm not happy. I'm actually very happy. Life has been good to me so far. So I hate religion, doesn't mean I hate religious people. How am I denigrating anyone when I suggest they do not see the facts of the one reality we all share? In this reality there are physical things we cannot deny. Of course anyone could suggest that nothing is real but there is no other reality evident at this moment. Other realities are merely conjecture.
I have to co-exist with people who think that whatever happens in the one true reality(this one) we are all familiar with really matters because according to them I'm ultimately bound for a different reality. Fine. Believe what you want. The only problem is, I have no say when the people counting on that faith are making the decisions that affect everyone here, right now. That's a big friggin' problem.
This is what I believe. I'm asking you to tell me the difference between that and other beliefs. The Baron came out counter punching when all I was asking was what's the difference. He did a quick psychoanalysis of me as if he had to defend those with an alternative belief by doing so. I find that strange. Baron, defender of the righteous...lighten up. I'm not defending with this thread, in fact I thought the topic actually favored the believers of things other than (ap)atheism and I certainly did not single out religion.
I have to co-exist with people who think that whatever happens in the one true reality(this one) we are all familiar with really matters because according to them I'm ultimately bound for a different reality. Fine. Believe what you want. The only problem is, I have no say when the people counting on that faith are making the decisions that affect everyone here, right now. That's a big friggin' problem.
This is what I believe. I'm asking you to tell me the difference between that and other beliefs. The Baron came out counter punching when all I was asking was what's the difference. He did a quick psychoanalysis of me as if he had to defend those with an alternative belief by doing so. I find that strange. Baron, defender of the righteous...lighten up. I'm not defending with this thread, in fact I thought the topic actually favored the believers of things other than (ap)atheism and I certainly did not single out religion.
QuarkMoon said:
But it is so hard NOT to ridicule people who have such a baseless fantasy. Most crazy people get ridiculed, why is that not allowed of religious people who are clearly crazy to think they not only believe in a God, but can list his (yes God is a male btw) motives.
Given that religion is what causes most conflict in the world, it is actually a right for people to question religion as a result.
Precisely why believers may get upset when confronted. There is no physical proof to support their claims and counter arguments. Nothing. It is probably easier to criticize believers than non believers just on the proof factor alone. What's the difference right now between a Sasquatch, ghosts, and God?
Baron....you keep bringing up the religious angle. I could say the same about the believers. I guess it depends on POV.
Anyway, so what? How does becoming upset about not getting a point across change anything. Doesn't make one believer or non-believer better than the other. I'll take a exasperated and frustrated atheist arguing their belief over another before I'd accept one religion settling a disagreement with another religion by going to war or using any violence. I think going to war over religious reasons is slightly more scarier than an upset atheist.
Anyway, so what? How does becoming upset about not getting a point across change anything. Doesn't make one believer or non-believer better than the other. I'll take a exasperated and frustrated atheist arguing their belief over another before I'd accept one religion settling a disagreement with another religion by going to war or using any violence. I think going to war over religious reasons is slightly more scarier than an upset atheist.
PsychoticEpisode
Chastisement is denigration. And the reason people like you ridicule, chastise, and rant is because you are full of fear.
Your not the only athiest in here who is driven by fear. Fear is the tool of satan, fear is the tool of dictators, you can get people to do a lot of evil things with fear. People attack what they fear.
Your locked into the physical world. Your like an animal only able to discern what you sense with your natural senses.
1 Corinthians 2
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Chastisement is denigration. And the reason people like you ridicule, chastise, and rant is because you are full of fear.
Your not the only athiest in here who is driven by fear. Fear is the tool of satan, fear is the tool of dictators, you can get people to do a lot of evil things with fear. People attack what they fear.
Your locked into the physical world. Your like an animal only able to discern what you sense with your natural senses.
1 Corinthians 2
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Fear drives the atheist? Isn't it the other way around? You follow God because you want to get into heaven and fear going to hell or whatever punishment the bible tells you will happen to non-believers.
Anyway, since you are allowed to paste stupid Bible quotes, I will do the same:
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB) If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Anyway, since you are allowed to paste stupid Bible quotes, I will do the same:
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB) If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
I was hoping to illicit a response that denigrated me and thanks to Adstar it arrived(animal reference). So Baron you can put your theory to bed.
I didn't want a religious tirade but it seems that the believers are upset.
What do I fear Adstar? Gee, if you think I'm afraid that your ilk will be the purveyors of death and destruction, and your not afraid, then I would have to conclude that I'm right . You want it real bad, in your lifetime real bad, and that is scary Adstar. Its when people who think your way come to power that are the scary times. No need for it whatsoever. We need a new world order where people who really want peace take over.
I didn't want a religious tirade but it seems that the believers are upset.
What do I fear Adstar? Gee, if you think I'm afraid that your ilk will be the purveyors of death and destruction, and your not afraid, then I would have to conclude that I'm right . You want it real bad, in your lifetime real bad, and that is scary Adstar. Its when people who think your way come to power that are the scary times. No need for it whatsoever. We need a new world order where people who really want peace take over.
Ex 20 Moses responded to the people, "Don't be afraid, for God has come to test you, so that you will fear Him and will not sin."
Le 19, but you are to fear your God; I am the Lord
de 4 'Assemble the people before Me, and I will let them hear My words, so that they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth and may instruct their children.'
de 5: If only they had such a heart to fear Me and keep all My commands, so that they and their children will prosper forever.
de 6 Fear the Lord your God, worship Him, and take [your] oaths in His name
There's a million more where that came from. You have it wrong Adstar, when you state; "fear is a tool of satan", you actually mean to say; "fear is a tool of god".
Openmindedness: it is the capacity to set aside preconceived ideas, prejudices and long-held beliefs, and to be willing to be persuaded to change your mind about something.QuarkMoon said:
openmindedness is the epitome of the atheist, it's because of his complete openmindedness, that he is who he is. he is open to listening to someone else's point of view, however obscure, and will hope, in return, that the other party will be openminded to his views.
I see openmindedness as the capacity to hold on to your principles, but just the large ones, and to be amenable to persuasion about other things, and whether they can be consistent with your basic common sense and morals.
however the religious are steadfastly closeminded, their beliefs are not open to discussion, however unreasonable, and defiant of logic they are.
after all they all state, to believe is to have "faith", which is completely without material evidence or logical proof.
All ethical and religious foundations teach tolerance. it is the golden rule. It is taught everywhere, there is more to connect us than separate us.
however some, would prefer to be separate.
The goldern Rule around the world
the non-believers: do not kill, to take the life of someone deprives them of their one and only chance of life.
Christianity: So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
Islam: No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
African Traditional Religions: One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts.
Bahai Faith: Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.
Buddhism: Hurt not others with that which pains yourself.
Confucianism: Do not unto others that which you would not have them do unto you.
Hinduism: This is the sum of duty: do naught to others that which if done to thee would cause pain.
Jainism: A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated.
Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the entire law; the rest is commentary.
Sikhism: Precious like jewels are the minds of all. To hurt them is not at all good. If thou desirest thy Beloved then, hurt thou not anyone’s heart.
Taoism: Regard your neighbor’s gain as your own gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.
Zoroastrianism: That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good for its own self.
KennyJC said:
The first thing you should do is get that bible and throw it in the bin, Because it is false. Lets read the verse in a real bible in context. lets look at the preceding verse also.
Deuteronomy 22:25-29 NKJV
25 “But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. 27 For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman cried out, but there was no one to save her.
28 “If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.
The first verses 15,26 and 27 are dealing with Rape. The penalty for rape was death to the male rapist and no penalty was given to the woman. and never would a woman be forced to marry her rapist in those times. The second verse deals with two people engaged in consensual sex. See how it says they are found out. That means that both have kept the secret of their fornication. And they where found out. Logic should tell you that having the two verses referring to rape with two different judgements makes no sense at all. Unless you think the law was stating that a rapist had to marry their victims then pay 50 shekels of silver to the victims wife and then be lead away and executed?
This verse makes it clearer it relates to the verse you quoted.
Exodos 22 NKJV
16 “If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife.
Note the bride-price (50 shekels) and the enticed woman (not raped) must marry the man who enticed her. (she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.)
A modern equivelant is a shotgun wedding.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
PsychoticEpisode said:
You have read enough of my posts to understand that i and people who have the faith that i hold true would never seek to obtain political power in this world. I do not even vote but did you read my posts? Did you read the one where i said that all nation on earth are under the control of satanic forces? Do you think i would get involved in politics and serve satan.
Also you know verry well that I as a follower of the Messiah Jesus would never engage in combat to kill others in this world, Not a muslim not a satanist not an athiest no one. I would prefer to be killed before i would kill another. So what do you have to fear from me? And i have made it abundantly clear that i wish destruction upon no one I want all to be saved from the wrath of God you included PsychoticEpisode. Of cource i wish this world as it is now to come to an end. But that is because i long for a better world one lead by the Messiah Jesus not by corrupt politicians and dictatorial thugs.
As i stated before and i will say it again you are full of fear of the religious fanatics coming to power well my friend they are already in power through agents like the masonic lodge, the reason you fear them is because you fear death and they will lead many to their deaths before the coming of the Messiah Jesus let me assure you.
And the "new world order" .... Well well well how fortunate you use that terminology. Yes they are putting into effect their "New World Order" and they will promise everyone peace and safety or as the road map puts it Peace and Security for the middle east and Israel
What a deception you are in for PsychoticEpisode They will get peace and security for a little while and then your worst fears will come true.1 Thessalonians 5
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
From the United Nations News Centre
http://www.un.org/media/main/roadmap122002.html
a Performance-Based Roadmap
to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
The following is a performance-based and goal-driven roadmap, with clear phases, timelines, target dates, and benchmarks aiming at progress through reciprocal steps by the two parties in the political, security, economic, humanitarian, and institution-building fields, under the auspices of the Quartet. The destination is a final and comprehensive settlement of the Israel-Palestinian conflict by 2005, as presented in President Bush’s speech of 24 June, and welcomed by the EU, Russia and the UN in the 16 July and 17 September Quartet Ministerial statements.
A two state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will only be achieved through an end to violence and terrorism, when the Palestinian people have a leadership acting decisively against terror and willing and able to build a practicing democracy based on tolerance and liberty, and through Israel’s readiness to do what is necessary for a democratic Palestinian state to be established, and a clear, unambiguous acceptance by both parties of the goal of a negotiated settlement as described below. The Quartet will assist and facilitate implementation of the plan, starting in Phase I, including direct discussions between the parties as required. The plan establishes a realistic timeline for implementation. However, as a performance-based plan, progress will require and depend upon the good faith efforts of the parties, and their compliance with each of the obligations outlined below. Should the parties perform their obligations rapidly, progress within and through the phases may come sooner than indicated in the plan. Non-compliance with obligations will impede progress.
A settlement, negotiated between the parties, will result in the emergence of an independent, democratic, and viable Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security with Israel and its other neighbors. The settlement will resolve the Israel-Palestinian conflict, and end the occupation that began in 1967, based on the foundations of the Madrid Conference, the principle of land for peace, UNSCRs 242, 338 and 1397, agreements previously reached by the parties, and the initiative of Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah – endorsed by the Beirut Arab League Summit – calling for acceptance of Israel as a neighbor living in peace and security, in the context of a comprehensive settlement. This initiative is a vital element of international efforts to promote a comprehensive peace on all tracks, including the Syrian-Israeli and Lebanese-Israeli tracks.
The Quartet will meet regularly at senior levels to evaluate the parties' performance on implementation of the plan. In each phase, the parties are expected to perform their obligations in parallel, unless otherwise indicated.
Oh and i cannot forget the good picture of a post Quartet meeting, from
http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=101222&src=0#
Ahhh good old 666 LOL
Don't forget to read the accompanying commentary of this meeting.
MODERATOR: Good afternoon. We will start off -- the Secretary General will start off the press conference by reading off his statement on behalf of the Middle East Quartet and then we will open it up to questions.
Secretary General, sir, please.
Secretary Rice press availability after Middle East Quartet Meeting with European Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner, UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, Secretary Rice, and EU High Representative Javier Solana.SECRETARY GENERAL ANNAN: Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, let me apologize for keeping you waiting a bit longer. The meeting lasted longer than we had anticipated.
The Quartet met today to discuss the Israeli withdrawal and the prospects for movement towards peace in the Middle East. The Quartet welcomed the successful conclusion of the withdrawal and the opportunity it brings to renew efforts on the roadmap. The Quartet paid tribute to the political courage of Prime Minister Sharon and expressed its appreciation for the responsible behavior of the Palestinians.
The withdrawal is an important step towards achieving the vision of two democratic states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and in security. The Quartet applauded the close coordination between the Israeli and Palestinian security services and their cooperation with the U.S. security coordinator General Ward.
.................................... .................................
Well we do live in interesting times don't we. There is a guy sitting at that bench you might know very little about His name is Javier Solana Keep a close eye on him.
All Praise the Ancient Of Days
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charles cure
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Baron Max said:
people dont believe in love, it is an emotion that people feel and there are certain (although variable) conditions that people agree must be present in order to have love or be in love. however, love is not a tangible, physical thing, you cant go out and touch love or see it or eat it, its an emotion, a name for a human feeling. its not the same as believing in a person or building or animal that is supposed to occupy physical space, acts independently, and has a definite effect on its surroundings, yet cant be proven to exist.
you dont believe in reason or logic or science. you have knowledge of them. there is no debate about whether or not they exist, only ignorance of how they function. believing in something and knowing about something are two different cognitive functions.
to believe in something you have to not be able to understand it, there needs to be an essential piece of the puzzle missing. people believe in god because they cannot know about god through study or observation. people have knowledge of a thing after observing it, collecting and cataloging demonstable facts and characteristics of the thing, and comparing and contrasting it with other things similar to it in order to get a sense of what it is, how it operates, and what effect it has on its surroundings.
people who believe in something without reason may well deserve to be denigrated. the belief in things that arent real and the construction of a culture based on a set of rules established by these apparitions is destructive to human existence. it is the cause of an endless type of conflict where each side engages the other in battle in order to vindicate their own baseless claim. the only problem with this is that anyone with a bit of luck and charisma can come up with one of these half-baked schemes, and depending on their ability to attract followers, it will either become a cult or a religion, potentially weilding political and social influence that will result in actions taken by ourselves and our leaders that effect us all either positively or negatively, but i would argue mostly negatively.