Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Why does "believing" in God, make life, controlled, submissive and confined?
Why do you assume the universe was created? Why must a higher being be involved? What is the relevance of super consciousness? There is no evidence to show that anything complex was created by higher beings or intelligent beings, whether low-level consciousness or super consciousness. All we know is that things evolve.When atheists can show me how and why are universe, or any other universe before it was created without any higher being or superconciousness, THEN I will join the club. But until then I think a God will suffice....
You presume an overly lenient admissions policy.Originally posted by CHRISCUNNINGHAM
When atheists can show me how and why are universe, or any other universe before it was created without any higher being or superconciousness, THEN I will join the club
Originally posted by Greco
Is a lack of belief for an atheist a done deal or is there a possibility of believing in God? What will it take, fellow atheists, to make you believers?Is Pascals' belief that even if there's a billion to one chance of God existing, one would be wise to believe because the payoff would be so great?
I find Pascals' argument very persuasive although I'm reluctant to participate in a ritualistic, dogmatic ,controlling religious organization.
what the dr. said above, but also, how many people before us have lived exactly the same life with exactly the same beliefs? many, many people. it relates to my idea that we are going no-where fast with the world because people are stuck in the same rut of conformative thinking that people were subjected to hundreds of years ago. i see christian people and i see the same type of confined thought in all of them. they can't roam outside their normal thoughts because in the end it comes down to god and if they do then it is blasphemy and they won't do it. myself, from personal experience (great english aye?) am able to go all over the place, think of any aspect to any idea and create my own pathways of thought as well as create something as simple as my own morals. show me that freedom in religious thought- there is none. if we want to cruise forwrd into the next millenia, we need this unconfined and unrestricted thought, especially since the doctrine of thought taught in churches is for an already out-dated society. we live in the 21st century, most people are stuck in the 16th.Why does "believing" in God, make life, controlled, submissive and confined?
But the concept of God may indeed be evil, or at least it resonates with the evil in each of us.
When theists can explain to me why their god would create thousands of lifeless planets, useless gasballs, and empty black holes, maybe I will join their club.When atheists can show me how and why are universe, or any other universe before it was created without any higher being or superconciousness, THEN I will join the club. But until then I think a God will suffice....
Why does "believing" in God, make life, controlled, submissive and confined?
The big bang theory does not not answer really why the "bang" occurred. There is little evidence for it apart from the universe expanding. And so what. Jesus said that the kingdom of God was like a mulberry seed. On the other hand, evolution has been observed. Well even the bible observed it with "like father like son". Conjecturing on the odds of the formation of life is premature considering that we have not even created a single cell under controled conditions.It is quite possible for the universe to have been created without some mumbo-jumbo intelligent life form. Evolution (which has been observed). A combination of chemicals to form life (has ALMOST been replicated in an experiment. Small globes of chemicals have been made that can reproduce. But not life.)
The Big Bang occurred. The universe is expanding.
No. Everything must done through love.1. Doing whatever 'God' tells you to do, because you are afraid of divine retribution.
Faith is not blind but is within.2. Having blind faith, and not having a mind open enough to search and examine evidence.
There are no alternatives. I have examined everything. Your position is useless. What little joy you have is with the intellectual pride of calling yourself an atheist.3. Not bothering to consider alternatives.
My moral code is based totaly and completely on,4. Not deciding upon your own morale 'code', but instead steal a
ready-made one out of a 2000 year old book that was written by barbarians.
I go to church to learn about God and to partake in the Eucharist.5. Scuttling off to church every Sunday because God might be mad if you don't.
We pray in order to be one with God.6. Praying because God might get angry if you don't.
Scripture tells us not to hate.7. Hating someone or something because the Bible (or a scripture) tells you to. Or making a decision based on a scripture.
Why do you assume the universe was created? Why must a higher being be involved? What is the relevance of super consciousness? There is no evidence to show that anything complex was created by higher beings or intelligent beings, whether low-level consciousness or super consciousness. All we know is that things evolve.
There is no 'reason'. It just occurred. Just because something exists does not mean it has a cause. That is deluded and illogical thinking.The big bang theory does not not answer really why the "bang" occurred.
Utter BS. There is mounds of evidence to support the BB theory.There is little evidence for it apart from the universe expanding.
500 years ago, we could not even create a plane. Does that mean it is impossible?Conjecturing on the odds of the formation of life is premature considering that we have not even created a single cell under controled conditions.
Total BSHmm....uhh...because the universe has been in existence for a finite amount of time, shown by the Big Bang theory, or maybe because if the universe always existed it couldn't possibly follow the second law of thermodynamics, because its energy supply would have been depleted by now....
Energy. And energy has always existed, as it is neither created nor destroyed.What caused the big bang?
It sounds reasonable to me.The very fact that the Big Bang is one of the silliest things I have ever heard
You need to deflate your ego. What makes you believe we have a 'reason' for existing. Maybe the 'reason' is to survive and pass on our genes.You have no reason for your existence.
Do you have any evidence supporting this theory? Nope. I didn't think so.will believe that there is something that created an infintely dense ball of matter that exploded "spontaneously" in a vast realm of absolute nothingness and created time a finite time ago before I believe that an infinitely dense ball of matter simply exploded for no reason, contained all the matter in the universe and is expanding into nothingness for no reason, and though it created time and it exploded a finite time ago its always existed...
Yes. I know it's possible. "It was then permitted to breathe life into the beast's image, so that the beast's image could speak..."500 years ago, we could not even create a plane. Does that mean it is impossible?
We have created objects like cells in a laboratory. And one day, you will be forced to eat your words. Scientists will create life. It's inevitable.
Slim. But your chances of winning jackpot in tattslotto are slim. Yet people HAVE won the jackpot.My point is that you do not know the chances of intelligent life evolving.
Provide evidence to support this claim.I suspect that conditions before and just after the big bang would be so extreme that all modern physics would break down.
Newton's theory was actually quite accurate. Einstein merely improved and added to it.Also for a while Newton's theory of gravity was considered perfectly correct, however this theory was later disproved.
You have nothing to lean back on, aboslutely nothing. You have no reason for your existence. Whether or not purpose is a even a real premise is something I am still debating
That would be true if the big bang was the beginning of the universe. But we don’t know that, and current research is indicating somewhat strongly that the big bang is most probably just one of a potentially infinite number of big bangs.Hmm....uhh...because the universe has been in existence for a finite amount of time, shown by the Big Bang theory,
This is a popular myth that we have explored many times here. If the universe were just a single big bang then yes entropy would tend to increase, however, if the big bang expands, collapses and explodes again, then entropy would simply be reset to zero each time. This is the cyclic theory of the universe that has not been ruled out but leading edge physics appears to be moving towards the multi-verse theories.or maybe because if the universe always existed it couldn't possibly follow the second law of thermodynamics, because its energy supply would have been depleted by now....
Yes but does the question make sense? We know the universe exists and we could ask what caused it, and even then if it is infinite then there is no answer. But there is nothing that indicates that a god exists so the question ‘what caused God?’ makes an assumption about a pre-existent state that cannot be sustained.One can ask, what caused God?
Your whole argument here rests on the big bang being the start of the universe. I hope I have shown above that that perspective is now somewhat very limited and you need to update your views.Well that is simply answered, there is no cause for God, because there is no need to be, whereas something "exploding" implies a cause for this explosion(an object at rest stay at rest until acted upon by an external force).
I’m pretty sure there is nothing in science that claims that the big bang is ‘supposed’ to be the origin of the universe. That seems to be a theist perspective so that they can claim there must be a creator who caused the big bang.The very fact that the Big Bang is one of the silliest things I have ever heard yet is supposed to explain the origin of our universe is what makes me a believer.
I think it is a superb idea if there is no purpose imposed on us since that means we are completely free to choose our own purpose. That single idea make me very happy to be alive and that I am truly free to do as I wish.You have nothing to lean back on, aboslutely nothing. You have no reason for your existence. Whether or not purpose is a even a real premise is something I am still debating,
Then read Guth and Linde and study current physics before you lock yourself into a very limited and out of date perspective.but I know one thing and one thing alone...I will believe that there is something that created an infintely dense ball of matter that exploded "spontaneously" in a vast realm of absolute nothingness and created time a finite time ago before I believe that an infinitely dense ball of matter simply exploded for no reason, contained all the matter in the universe and is expanding into nothingness for no reason, and though it created time and it exploded a finite time ago its always existed...
I think you have logic confused with something else. Your claim for a premise is incorrect. Any valid premise must be based on fact. You cannot prove something with logic unless you have facts no matter how much you want something to be true.Logic is the basis of our cognitive ability. However logic has one inherent flaw....the given absolute. In order for one to ever use logic he must first state a premise that has no proof, no corroboration, and no purpose other than a conveniet method of proving what one wants to prove. This flaw consequently makes Logic illogical by its own standards. However this flaw is equally and paradoxically what makes logic "logical".
Not making too much sense.....think about it a bit.....
Originally posted by mountainhare
.... your chances of winning jackpot in tattslotto are slim. Yet people HAVE won the jackpot.
.
wow, shit for brains."see it's raining! that proves god exists, rain is like a miracle from god because how the heck does something as heavy as water get up to the sky and fall? obviously god is dropping the water"
yeah that would be nice, but it's not going to happen. not because god is testing us or some crap but rather because people like noah are mythical characters, so god never spoke to them. and if you take into account the consistency in which god appears (for some reason his appearances taper off thees last to millienia, why?) and talks to people, it is because the world was supposed to end ages ago so he wasn't required to show up any more. for an end of te world cult it is a very clever one. vague enough to persist to this day.i would like to see god himself come down, and speak to us