What will it take for an atheist to believe in God?

Greco

Registered Senior Member
Is a lack of belief for an atheist a done deal or is there a possibility of believing in God? What will it take, fellow atheists, to make you believers?Is Pascals' belief that even if there's a billion to one chance of God existing, one would be wise to believe because the payoff would be so great?

I find Pascals' argument very persuasive although I'm reluctant to participate in a ritualistic, dogmatic ,controlling religious organization.
 
sorry, but the payoff is nothing great, nothing worth making your life controlled, submissive, and confined. heaven is eternal boredom, what is so great about that? we only get one life, one chance, i'm making the most of it, through the beliefs that i've gained and am going to gain i will be a better person for it. i won't start wars, i'll defend my life and others vigourously and all the time it's going to be on my grounds, no-one will have told me what to believe and to me, nothing could make me give that up.
 
Originally posted by atheroy
i won't start wars,

That's an interesting declaration. Does being an atheist tend to make one a pacifist? Is the fear of dying without hope in an afterlife tend to make one carefully chose his fights? Does religion promote war indirectly by promising an afterlife?Alot to think about.
 
Is the fear of dying without hope in an afterlife tend to make one carefully chose his fights?
IMHO people believe in god because they fear death. Most people don't have a choice in when or how they die so why fear it, I think history would show death is usually quick?
Who do you mean when you say "choose his fights"?
What sort of fight? How does fighting relate to belief?
What will it take for an atheist to believe in God?
What will it take for a believer to become an atheist?
Probably nothing, so what would you expect of an atheist?
I find Pascals' argument very persuasive...
Why? Because you percieve a billion to be large? I think better odds would be sum(energy of universe) to one? Which isn't very persuasive to me:)
 
Personally, I don't believe in anything supernatural. So basically, in order to get me to believe in God, you would have to show that he is not supernatural and therefore not God. ;)
 
Originally posted by Greco
Originally posted by atheroy
Does religion promote war indirectly by promising an afterlife?Alot to think about.

Religion promotes war directly by telling people to kill for their God, or to slay members of other religions.

All it would take for most Athiests to believe in God is conclusive evidence.

A scientific mind only offers provisional agreement with an idea after enough evidence has been gathered, such that so many things point to only one satisfying conclusion for a phenomina, that it would be reasonable to give provisional greement to the explanation. This hasn't happend yet with God. Also, once it's proven that a diety figure exists, it'll take still more convinsing for many people to accept why they should believe in his particular laws, or why they should worship him.
 
Greco

A couple short notes:

Afterlife/wars: Yes. By combining the supremacist notion with the ultimate currency (eternity) one concocts a deadly potion.

Pascal's Wager: The wager plays on cowardice. It asks you to forsake the opportunity to attain knowledge in exchange for the comfort of an unprovable superstitious assertion. Don't bite that apple; the fruit is bitter.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Does religion promote war indirectly by promising an afterlife?Alot to think about.

I would say, that from reading all I have read on this board and others, and from knowledge of how things work today, religion not only promoted war, but was invented specifically for it. Obviously, some of the messages in most religions don't tell people to go out and murder, but read all of the examples these texts give you.

Islam--I believe that's the one--promises a thousand virgins in the afterlife, or something to that effect. Vikings had Valhalla, which beared a striking resemblance, i.e. a strong, male-oriented heaven. The Christians have eternal life, and Judaism promises a savior who free the world of it's evil (or something like that.) While they all leave the believer unafraid of death, they also leave them open to manipulation.

Islam, for example. What teenage boy doesn't dream of a place with a thousand women who are willing to touch you were your bathing suit covers? :D

All of these peoples were exploring, conquering peoples, and they created the carrot-on-a-stick method; they held out this promise of enternal life, or a thousand virgins, or an enternal strip club, in exchange for spreading the word of this "God." If that meant invading a nation, then so be it. After all, the king made himself some major cash and some more land, and the people now had something to look forward to.

When does disbelief gives you more knowledge? Doesn't that imply lack of knowledge?

You're really reaching on this one. Actually, I shouldn't say that, because I think you're trying to make a backhanded comment about disbelief in your god, not disbelief in general. Real clever, Jethro.

Disbelief doesn't inheretly imply a lack of knowledge. You know that. I don't believe in the Easter Bunny. Does that mean I lack knowledge of the situation? No. It means the opposite.

For me to believe in god, you would need to show me some proof. And I don't need anyone to prove the supernatural, because I for one believe in the supernatural. I've seen ghosts, but that does not prove the existance of God. I've seen the natural, too, but that doesn't prove the existance of the flying, purple Llama. I want to see a miracle. I want to talk to God. I want, as the people in the Bible said, have God walk physically before me, in full God Gear, and tell me something. Is that too much to ask? Some of the people who believed in God in the Bible actually saw him, they didn't go on an ancient book.

Until then, anyone who says they believe are guessing, nothing more. And doing so blindly, becuase there is nothing to say there is a god, save one lousy book with mistranslations.

JD
 
You're really reaching on this one. Actually, I shouldn't say that, because I think you're trying to make a backhanded comment about disbelief in your god, not disbelief in general. Real clever, Jethro.
I'm not reaching out. Disbelief has never gained anyone knowledge. In fact, it stops people from investigating. Also your view of the supernatural is different from mine. You say you saw ghosts, where I would probably say demons. Faith is really in how you see things.
 
Originally posted by JDawg
... there is nothing to say there is a god, save one lousy book with mistranslations.
Just out of curiosity, to which specific "mistranslations" are you referring, what are the correct translations, and where is the vorlage from which those translations were made?
 
Re: Re: What will it take for an atheist to believe in God?

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
How so? It presumes a vindictive Deity that honors opportunism over intellectual honesty.

Isn't that what we do when we play the lottery. Dont we betray our intellectual honesty by wagering in a 40 million to 1 chance of winning? But, we do play using Pascals' reasoning, if the wager is insignificant (1 dollar) and the payoff is large(millions of dollars) then it follows to wager just a tiny bit of ones energy for a return of a fortune , no matter how unlikely the odds of winning.

If you dont play the lottery, you can not win. If you play the lottery you can win even when the odds are overwhelming.

It's greed over intellectual honesty as you said.
 
Re: Re: Re: What will it take for an atheist to believe in God?

Originally posted by Greco
It's greed over intellectual honesty as you said.
Or worse. I wager that God(s) would be more likely to respect intellectual honest than greed. You take the other side of the bet, and then assert that your position is "very persuasive". So, persuade me that God is more likely to punish me for my honesty and reward you for your intellectual maneuver.
 
Originally posted by atheroy
sorry, but the payoff is nothing great, nothing worth making your life controlled, submissive, and confined.

Why does "believing" in God, make life, controlled, submissive and confined?

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: What will it take for an atheist to believe in God?

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Or worse. I wager that God(s) would be more likely to respect intellectual honest than greed. You take the other side of the bet, and then assert that your position is "very persuasive". So, persuade me that God is more likely to punish me for my honesty and reward you for your intellectual maneuver.

Depends how one looks at God. Why cant God be greedy and reward like minded men, after all he demands our devotion to him and to no one else(remember, he created us in his image). Maybe the "test" of a believer is to overcome his intellectual honesty and succumb to greed.

I cant believe I'm making a case for a greedy God.
 
WHERE IS MY POST??????!!!!!!

PLUS I HAVE NO AVATAR, AND I SENT MY MONEY!! :mad: *PISSED OFF**
 
Cris quote:
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What will it take for an atheist to believe in God?
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Credible evidence

Right!! Because there is so much corroboration, for our universe's existence without any type of higher being.....

When atheists can show me how and why are universe, or any other universe before it was created without any higher being or superconciousness, THEN I will join the club. But until then I think a God will suffice....
 
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