What is worse...

My Sexy Blue Feet

Out sunbaking, leave a msg...
Registered Senior Member
In your oppinion, what is worse......
Cheating on your significant other, knowing that they won't find out.
or
Allowing your significant other to believe that you cheated on them whne you didn't. (for your own personal benifet?)
 
Cheating on your significant other, knowing that they won't find out.

Because you know that one day they will find out then your really going to be in deep do do!
 
Allowing your significant other to believe that you cheated on them. Because you have no excuse for doing this, other than being selfish. It's murder in the first degree vs. voluntary manslaughter.
 
Actually, every male in the world has the right and the excuse for cheating.

When males spread their seed it’s merely evolution at works. You find the optimal candidate and wish to fertilize. Though today, the whole concept is disguised and derailed with the pretense of enjoyment and disadvantageousness.

If something is enjoyable it can also be prevented, for the level of necessity and usefulness (and in modern days the act is given none of these attributes) is not equivalent with the consequence.

Fuck that I say.
Even if the act leads to nowhere concrete – enjoyment – it still enforces important behavioral values.

People who are stuck with fat nagging shit-for-brain bitches SHOULD go out and cheat, otherwise evolution has done pointless labor which only brought us into a state of dalliance.
 
When males spread their seed it’s merely evolution at works. You find the optimal candidate and wish to fertilize. Though today, the whole concept is disguised and derailed with the pretense of enjoyment and disadvantageousness.

If something is enjoyable it can also be prevented, for the level of necessity and usefulness (and in modern days the act is given none of these attributes) is not equivalent with the consequence.

This is an evolutionary psychologist's fallacy.
Males don't have sex to 'spread their seed'. They have sex because it feels good. Pleasure and emotion is a mechanism to ensure compliance with certain necessary behaviors.

Think about it, it's always said that a man wants to father the most children. Therefore he mates with the largest number of females that he can get away with. In this way he ensures the survival of his genes.

But. Does he? Really? Isn't the survival of offspring more likely when cared for by two parents? When a male and a female both work to provide for the child? Especially in species such as ours that experience neoteny (the lengthening of childhood to almost ridiculous proportions). How many children die because of lack of care? How is this ensuring survival of genes?

It's not.

Men and women have different biological strategies for a very simple reason. Economics. Men don't have to live with the consequences of their actions. They can fuck (for pleasure) and then move on. The woman has to bear the brunt of the action. She fucks (for pleasure) gets pregnant and is stuck with a squawling babe and a maternal instinct to care for him (usually). See the difference? It is because of this that women are more choosy in their partners.

As means of proof of this argument, witness the modern era. In today's age, the government has enacted laws and programs to take some of the brunt of responsibility off of the woman. Mandatory child support, welfare, earned income tax credits, etc... And we also mustn't forget the lack of stigma. Once a single mother was looked at as a tramp and a whore. A 'dirty girl'. Nowadays it's old hat. The economic consequences that she must pay for having a child without a father is less than it used to be. And as a consequence, women are just as slutty as men nowadays.

They're not 'spreading their seed'. They're just having fun. They're following nature's cue.


Also, consider infanticide among hunter/gatherer societies. Infants were/are often killed at birth because the tribe is not ready for a child. To have a child while resources are spread thin already is to lessen the chance of survival of other children and the tribe as a whole. Fertility is not goal. But longevity.
 
Invert,
You're confusing the evolutionary cause with the biological impulse. An organism that does not enjoy reproducing is at a disadvantage, just as an organism that doesn't feel pain is at a disadvantage.

There are two types of reproductive strategies: k-selection and r-selection. r-selected species growth curves are exponential, which can simply look like y=e^x (they curve upwards, fater and faster, each generation much larger than the last). k-selected growth curves exponentially slow down, or something like y=ln(e) (the curve starts to level off, and each successive generation is not much larger than the last).

r-selection characterizes things with short lives and small brains, which usually means there is a very short development stage, requiring little or no parental attention. Usually things on the bottom of the food chain, salmon, roaches, rabbits, mice, spiders, are r-selected.
Elephants and lions and chimps are k-selected, and raise their young since they take years to mature. It is a better use of parental resources to take care of a cub, then let it try to survive on its own. First, there is the long and energy intensive gestation time of large mammals, humans included. All large mammals must learn the appropriate behaviour for their environment, and so require someone to teach it to them, as well as having longer development times (mostly because of brain size).

Isn't the survival of offspring more likely when cared for by two parents?
It's all dependent on the species reproductive strategy. Some animals raise their babies communally, and American society is moving towards this with welfare. Of course, in today's environment, two parents can best raise a child, as there are twice as many available resources for offspring.
In developed nations, reproductive strategies tend to focus on raising a small number of children, 1 or 2, as children have become enormously energy intensive to get them to maturity, and to get them fit for a developed nation's environment.
Compare this with the 8 or so kids per woman in the Congo.

Female chickadees, small songbirds, sleep around lots to garner support from multiple males. The males don't know who has whose offspring, so take care of the mothers they've mated with as the chicks may be theirs.

But this is all tangent to what you're saying Invert, and now that I review what you wrote, and what I am writing, I find us in agreement. I offer this next bit as support of your argument.

Humans are one of the few animals that have sex for pleasure, and we are the only mammal who cannot tell when females are in estrus. Most of the time, when humans have sex it is for recreation and not reproduction. Pregnancy is an unwanted consequence. However, when men OR women want kids, most choose a partner they find suitable, that they can stay with for at least as long as it take to get the kid legal. The human reproductive strategy is fairly similar to an orangutan.

I agree that women aren't as big as sluts because they have to live with the consequence of unwanted pregancy, which, in gross energy terms, is 9 months of a parasite sucking her life away.
 
Last edited:
Don’t get derailed here Nexus. I wasn’t talking about the burdens and methods that reside in the external – or rather – in the abstruse mechanism that is the modern society (bleh).
The basic drives are coded inside the individual: Hunger, thirst, sex… which leads to maternal behaviour, avoiding discomfort, curiosity etc…

The concept of sex can not be explained by simply ‘witnessing the modern era’, of course it resides in today’s society, but the basis of the element goes deeper than… economics.

Did you know that some of the basic reflexes that are used during sex are not controlled by the brain?
They don’t require control from the brain but are still capable of using it. Male ejaculation, erection etc.. are controlled at the level of the spinal cord.

This basically means that males can be ‘fooled’ into having sex.
Males do not need calculating nor emphatic mindsets when it comes down to fucking, and women do not need to posses traits that lower the obstacles in having sex. A limp dick and a dry woman aren’t akin.
She gets pregnant whether there are stimuli or not.

I’m not saying what’s right and what’s wrong, but the thrill is that the social methods of mating aren’t as concrete as neural mechanisms.

And having sex feels good because it needs to in order for people to practice it. Evolution will not enforce behavioural traits that cause discomfort. And I don’t think it’s been said that men want to ‘father’ many children, having sex does not mean commitment to the consequences.

There is a reason (from a scientific, not necessarily ‘humane’ standpoint) that women posses strong maternal instinct – it gives the alpha male room to hunt (too tired to expand).

Enjoying sex and experiencing it often and with multiple partners are two different things.
It’s not about concretely ‘spreading the seed’, thought that is the idea behind it.

It is fun as you know there are no burdens and consequences following the act - burdens and consequences that are only reside in societies –, therefore they are not comparable with the genetic traits residing in you and in me.
 
The concept of sex can not be explained by simply ‘witnessing the modern era’, of course it resides in today’s society, but the basis of the element goes deeper than… economics.
It's completely economics, whether abstractly represented with dinero, or in actual energy terms. Organisms that get more for less tend to be better fit for their environment, and so survive to reproduction, and may reproduce more.
 
Nicely grasped goddamnit.

You’re saying that the basic motivations and drives are controlled and supervised vie economical standpoints?

Wait… no you’re not.
You’re merging a point of ‘progressive nature (in a community) of old methods which have implemented themselves inside the protecting eyes of the social structure’ into the basis of sexual behaviour.

Cultural influences are merely patterns learned and absorbed during ones life and do not bypass the most basic mechanisms of sexual behaviour.

Actually… I don’t even get what you’re talking about. You take 10 words from my text and reply with some dribble to which I already somewhat replied to (in the text that followed those 10 words).
 
I didn't address the rest of your drivel because I essentially agree with it. However, you seem to think economics is unimportant. If you equate economics with energy in an ecosystem, then economics is very, very powerful.

Look at the birth rates of poor people and rich people. Compare these growth curves with those of animals like rabbits or rats or fish, or other animals that suffer stressful environments and high mortality rates.

Wealth affects reproduction.
 
Yes, it drives birthrates down. Wealthier people and countries have fewer offspring and concentrate more resources on them, poorer people and countries have more offspring and concentrate fewer resources on them.

I don't think anyone really has sex for pleasure. Is there any logical correlation between the traits that inspire my lust - blue eyes, thin lips, compact physique, for instance - than my expectation of pleasure? There's no reason to suppose that an attractive person is a better lay than an unattractive person.

Hedonism is a fairly modern construction.

But it is not necessarily in a male's best interest to roam about fucking every female. Human babies being so fragile, it seems to work best if they establish a stable breeding pair with one or more females and occasionally screw around on the side. This is more or less the case with women, and it's what we observe happening - people form monogamous relationships and screw around every so often.

The problem occurs when social structures evolve that need the couple to become a stable pair. Then you have moral and civil punishments for adultury, that most natural of all offenses.

To the question:

How would it benefit you to be seen as an adulturer?
 
But it is not necessarily in a male's best interest to roam about fucking every female. Human babies being so fragile, it seems to work best if they establish a stable breeding pair with one or more females and occasionally screw around on the side. This is more or less the case with women, and it's what we observe happening - people form monogamous relationships and screw around every so often.
Exactly!
 
Is there any logical correlation between the traits that inspire my lust - blue eyes, thin lips, compact physique, for instance - than my expectation of pleasure? There's no reason to suppose that an attractive person is a better lay than an unattractive person.

There isn't any reason to "suppose that an attractive person is a better lay than an unattractive person" that makes sense to us now.
Our notions of attractiveness are evolutional as well. Sure, males in a species have the freedom to fuck in every direction, but they don't. Mating selections are made to maximize the chances of the offspring surviving. Of course males don't actually contemplate these chances; it's instinctual, a behavior reinforced by natural selection, and the healthiest, fittest-looking female is obviously the best choice. This doesn't mean the males don't fuck like crazy. They fuck like crazy and try to get the best mates.

I think that the human image of the 'fit' (as in the fitness of survival) individual, was present in our species in prehistoric times, and has survived in society to the present day. I'm sure it has changed a little throughout history (today, different cultures have different stardards of attractiveness), but even the stereotypically attractive individuals of our society are, for the most part, muscular, slim, and healthy-looking.
It's hard to say whether our notions of attraction are affected more by culture or by our evolutionary predisposition.

As for the main point of this thread:

How would it benefit you to be seen as an adulturer?

I can only assume that pretending to cheat would be a means for inflicting emotional pain or to manipulate the partner in some way. If you consider these beneficial...

In one instance, you are lying to not to hurt your significant other, and in the other, you are lying to hurt her/him.
 
Xev said:
There's no reason to suppose that an attractive person is a better lay than an unattractive person.
There isn't, but there's a reason to reproduce with attractive people. Attractive people, on average, live longer than uglier people. So if sex feels good because it is beneficial, then having sex with attractive people (people who have presumably good genes, or at least good environmental conditions) must be beneficial as it is pleasurable.
 
Roman

Fair enough, surroundings and environment do affect populations; still, rabbits don’t function in economically conscious societies.
Bu the deal is that reproduction and sexual behaviour count on different features when it comes down to enacting.
I was more talking about the functionality of an organism rather than the survival of the species.

---------------------

Xev
“How would it benefit you to be seen as an adulturer?”

It wouldn’t, and I was trying to side with the stance that evolutionarily speaking we are not supposed to exclusively commit into a relationship of two.

When hormones stimulate sexual motivation they do not alter behaviour, they set the mindset towards a state of alacrity. There are control issues that determine our behaviour and thus we can accustom ourselves into a stubborn relationship which focuses the sexual needs only towards our counterpart.

But since the curiousness we possess towards exploration, manipulation, stimulation etc… we tend to advance towards various sexual innovations.

Shit… John Holmes had a wife. To roam around does not mean to abandon the one you share respects, views, experiences, influences with.

What was it that Freud said about libido?
Something in the lines of: one must let out some steam from time to time so we don’t get build ups.
Not sure..
 
whichever benefits me the most.
you really should've made this a poll...
 
depends on who you are.
if i benefit from it, its good, and i get something.
if i dont benefit, i'll probably get pissed and shoot something.
 
Roman:
There isn't, but there's a reason to reproduce with attractive people. Attractive people, on average, live longer than uglier people. So if sex feels good because it is beneficial, then having sex with attractive people (people who have presumably good genes, or at least good environmental conditions) must be beneficial as it is pleasurable.

Pardon, but that makes no sense whatsoever.

Perkele:
It wouldn’t, and I was trying to side with the stance that evolutionarily speaking we are not supposed to exclusively commit into a relationship of two.

'Xactly.
For the first several months or years of a relationship, we exclusively commit. Then the infatuation wears off, and what most people do is terminate the relationship or become progressively more unhappy within it.

Hence the "falling in love/falling out of love" thing. The infatuation doesn't continue, which leads most to break the relationship, enter a new one, and start the cycle again. It would be much more logical to keep that pair bond.

That said, I've known "polyamorous" people and they were some of the flakiest motherfuckers I've known, even next to Goths.
 
the problem is that in my eyes what makes something worse isn't knowing weather or not you will get caught i think if you dont care about some one enough to stay with them and you lie to them so they will break up with you go ahead but if you cheat on someone and you care about them enough to stay with them you dont deserve them that is just plain wrong.
 
Back
Top