what is the Christian vision?

Thanks for asking.

Even if Jesus came to purposely to die, in order to end sacrifice and fulfill the requirements of the Law to purchase a ransom (as per standard doctrine),
what is overlooked is that TORTURE is forbidden by the Law, as well as False Witness etc.

That is, Jesus could have easily acheived His purpose without crucifixion, scourging and mockery, which were all gratuitous, viscous, and evil. Judas, in his betrayal, the Jewish Leaders in holding a Star Chamber and handing Him over to the Romans, and the Romans in engaging in torture and murder are all utterly guilty of a monstrous and unnecessary crime(s).

Whether or not Jesus 'had to die' for whatever reason, the actions of the people involved in His crucifixion are unpardonable and deadly sins.

According to the Torah (Law of Moses) Any Redeeming or substitutionary Sacrifice had to be killed by strict and humane rules upon the Altar of God, and painlessly as possible, without torture or distress.

Whatever Jesus achieved through His death could have been achieved without torture, humiliation, ridicule, or gratuitous injury and neglect. Therefore, the doctrine of Atonement and Sacrifice must be carefully interpreted to prevent justification of wholly UNLAWFUL acts, which cannot be acceptable to God on any level, ethical, moral, spiritual, or mystical.

The Jewish leaders were rightfully condemned for their guilt in beheading John the Baptist, torturing and murdering Jesus, and persecuting His followers.

Paul acknowledged the evil in his own former deeds as a zealous persecuter of Christians, and God's punishment in the many things he would be required to suffer to make some amends for his henious crimes.

This is why all the NT writers wholeheartedly condemn the actions of the traitor, the Religious leaders and pharisees, and the Roman authorities, unlike later theologians who downplay these elements out of a misplaced embarrassment.
 
hah.....the bones of it is tis. for hunters there was sacrifice to the gods....blood sacrifice. think also it was Mayans who did blood sacrfice to the Sun.....they imagining that Sun had sacrificed ITself for creatin so their 'logic' assumesthat in order to recompensate they had to tear living hearts out of countelless sacrficial victims to keep it Sun happy....!

so...bones. the literalist myth of Christian tradition issame ilk. that a blood sacrifice has to be gien to 'God' as being the only way of 'atonement'.....horrible idea

Now, i havebeen very interested in the mythic idea of sacrifice, and have wondered at its origins....here's what i have gleaned

i am exploin that the most primal beginnings of sense of sacrifice was MENSTRUATION.....women communally would mentruate, nd their blood was natural offereing/sacrifice to Earth. intermingled wit tis was mentruations cxonnection wit cyces of the Moon
TOGETHER with this origin of 'sacrifice'--which necessitated NO animal, NO human, was sacrifice of te god'plant, the psychecelic sacrament....listen when you pluck a carrot from the ground. are you not killing it? yeah, you could be called sacrificing it so as to eat it, ....seems plausible, no? well thats a carot. now i aint got nutin aginst carrots, but we are NOW movin onto te awesome interaction between human and psychedelic fungus, and the mythology which would have been inspired by this relationship

so, see that the taking of the psychedelic from Earth would demand--in the ancinets eyes--some form of recompense. equal to tis taking. what more that the person's actual 'self' or 'ego' or 'rigidity'. are you wit me. THEsacrifice wasthepersona/mask....and sacricing that gives ecstasy. no einstuck NOT MDMA!...but ecstatic communion wit all pnesbeing, community and environment

so what is tis feeling like? can it be explained to someone whose never had it? no
 
Adstar said:
Seems like we have another Angelic being.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
How do you mean?....and why did you not cary on reponding to the Chritianity versus Luciferian and vice versa thread?
 
duendy said:
How do you mean?....and why did you not cary on reponding to the Chritianity versus Luciferian and vice versa thread?

Well all i saw was

))))))))))))))hmmmmmm((((((((((((((
in the last post of that thread.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
Well all i saw was

in the last post of that thread.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
te reason i put tings post quote is that, with my system IF i dont type anything past te quotei cant post a reply!....go back to said post and you will see i HAVE made some points in reply in rhe main body of the tex. i await your reponse then shall i?
 
Why don't you just use the backspace and remove the top and bottom quote code, that will remove the quote box immediately. All you have to do is take out the [ or the ] from the QUOTE code to remove the Box.

I did re-read your post and i replied. Sorry i did not see it the first time.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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