What is free will?

[cluelusshusbund]

Gods perfect plan has always been in existence.!!!

Satan-God is the same entity in both roles… so the only “sin” held accountable is by humans.!!!

Sins such as murder are more like casualties of war… sesual encounters is mainly what God is concerned about.!!!

Its sorta a mute pont if any judge attempted to rule against God sinse they woud likely wind up as a toad in hell.!!!

In Heaven… all are content… no more sin… no more sufferin.!!!

The feel/visual of Heaven i get from God impresses me as bein somewhat like the pic below.!!!

 

[Michael 345]

Satan-God is the same entity in both roles

Oh not heard that before

Does the pope know?

Anyway cluelusshusbund you appear to be living up, or should that be down, to your moniker

However my conclusion at the stage of the thread I am going to go with

You are the person addressing the crowd

 

[Dicart]

Can not sin = no free will

No, you can (there is a possibility to do so, so free will), this doesen't mean you are actually doing sin...
You sin as soon as you factualy eat from the knowledge tree (for this particular example), not as you plan to do so.
Thats the difference i think you dont take in account.

Use by default = no free will

No, you have free will, like my rabbit whose domain is so big that he doesent need to go outside his domain to feel free.
You have free will like the rabbit that cant jump from the building without concequence.

Got it. Heard loud and clear. Act AGAINST god's will = sin. Fully understood.

You got it.
Like i am my rabbits master, God is my Master.

= can sin

Yes you can, but you should not.

= have instructions (apparently non binding because they are instructions NOT orders) therefore I have free will to disobey instructions

Instructions or orders are the same here.
If as a child your father say to you, "dont put you hand into the fire", he is doing this for your own good, it can be understand as an order, an instruction or an advise.

 

[Dicart]

Satan-God is the same entity in both roles…

This is trivialy true, like the Man and every creation.
Angels are some expressions of God, but i would not say Satan-God or Angel-God, God is "The All" that we cant understand, Angels etc are some expression of God we can understand a bit more.

 

[Michael 345]

I'm going to let whoever post here sort it out because you are all giving mixed messages

So to make it easy for me, of course, can, if you wish to, cut and paste the below quiz and answer and send at your leisure thanks

When I get some idea what each believes I will reply to each

QUIZ

Q1 - Can I sin in heaven? YES NO

Q2 - Is there marriage in heaven? YES NO

Q3 - Is sex the ONLY sin in heaven I can do, ie have sex without being married? YES NO

Reading back they seem strange BUT because they come from strange post

Sample answer below

Thanks

 

[Michael 345]

QUIZ

Q1 - Can I sin in heaven? YES✓

Q2 - Is there marriage in heaven? NO ✓

Q3 - Is sex the ONLY sin in heaven I can do, ie have sex without being married? YES ✓

 

[Michael 345]

If you want to make a quiz like mine for a reply from me I'm happy to answer

 

[Dicart]

QUIZ

Q1 - Can I sin in heaven? NO

Q2 - Is there marriage in heaven? Dont Know

Q3 - Is sex the ONLY sin in heaven I can do, ie have sex without being married? NO because Q1

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Oh not heard that before

Does the pope know?

Like most people the pope is very mixed up about sin.!!!

Anyway cluelusshusbund you appear to be living up, or should that be down, to your moniker

Thanks... it was given to me by my online x-hore wife an her boyfrind... an i now ware it as a badge of honor.!!!

However my conclusion at the stage of the thread I am going to go with

You are the person addressing the crowd

Good exampe... oft times people miss the pont an pick at irrelevant details.!!!

Q1 - Can I sin in heaven? YES✓

Q2 - Is there marriage in heaven? NO ✓

Q3 - Is sex the ONLY sin in heaven I can do, ie have sex without being married? YES ✓

Well grasshopper... you scored 100% corect

 

[Michael 345]

QUIZ

Q1 - Can I sin in heaven? NO

Q2 - Is there marriage in heaven? Dont Know

Q3 - Is sex the ONLY sin in heaven I can do, ie have sex without being married? NO because Q1

Well if I can't sin in heaven I do not have free will

Thanks for the quiz answer

 

[Dennis Tate]

any choice you make has reason for it. The brain is a physical organ that runs a physical process and decisions are made as a result of that process. To Exercise free will you would need to do something for absolutely no reason. That's impossible. If you come to a fork in the road, there will always be a reason you take one or the other. That pre-existing reason for your choice negates the idea of free will.

This is an intriguing question. One near death experiencer who was an Atheist at the time of his NDE was shown that Free Will will be DECREASED over the next two centuries as the earth is made to be much less violent.

Howard Storm's light being friends told him more about the new world to come. According to them, God wished to usher in the kingdom within the next two hundred years. In order to do so, God had rescinded some of the free will given to creatures, in favor of more divine control over human events. This new world order, according to Howard, will resemble some near-death descriptions of heaven. People will live in such peace and harmony and love that communication will be telepathic, travel instantaneous and the need for clothing and shelter eliminated. The lion will indeed lie down with the lamb." (Howard Storm, near-death .com)

 

[Dicart]

Well if I can't sin in heaven I do not have free will

I know this is not straight forward but ... you are wrong.
You can not sin in heaven, and (simultaneously) you have free will.
What you dont understand (if i understand well) is that sin can not exist in heaven, so... sin is outside heaven per facto.
There is no delay, there is fact.
Heaven is perfect and can not have sin inside of it, even a quick instant.

To understand, let us take an example with something that spread so fast that for us on earth it looks like it act instantly.
Let say there is one room with no light, and there is one room with light.
Let say sin is light (it is not, but it is to understand, you could say it is antilight, so darkness, but we dont think this way on earth, so forget this).
So heaven here is the room with no light and earth is the room with light.

The definition of the room, his property, his conceptual being, is that there is no light in heaven.
It is not like on earth where physicality rules the form, here in the perfect world, God's Word rule the form.
So, if there is light (there is sin, this is the fact) it is not compatible with the definition of heaven, with the Word "Heaven".
But it is compatible with earth, the physicalist "room" (or some sort of hell) that exists because of contradiction, ruled by the contradictor.

So where is the sin ?
In earth with "lucifer", not in heaven.
Both properties, position and light, swap together instantly because it is conceptual, not physical...

It is an other way to think, there is no cause preceding effect, just conceptual compatibility.

 

[Michael 345]

any choice you make has reason for it. The brain is a physical organ that runs a physical process and decisions are made as a result of that process. To Exercise free will you would need to do something for absolutely no reason. That's impossible. If you come to a fork in the road, there will always be a reason you take one or the other. That pre-existing reason for your choice negates the idea of free will.

A reason YOU choose one fork in the road IS your free will in action

What those who say you do not have free will are those who talk (mean) a almost infinite number of CAUSE - EFFECT reactions

Beginning at the Big Bang there has been in motion a continuous chain of, figuratively speaking, falling dominoes. And yes you would be unaware of the falling dominoes causing the action of your free will and so continue with your illusion you do have free will

It (free will) however seems to have a friend in Quantum Mechanics which appears to have events happening with no discernible cause

Such action could be likened to a complete new pattern of dominoes replacing all future dominoes just before the last past dominoe strikes

Of course this concept does not eliminate the debate while it does, to my mind, eliminate (change the history of non living stuff) which of course totally lacks free will

The total Quantum Mechanics effects in operation within the sphere of a person's influence is unknown but even if free will is found to be an illusion (I doubt it will be) I'm happy to join with the illusion and call it free will

 

[Michael 345]

Stuff up

 

[Michael 345]

I know this is not straight forward but ... you are wrong.
You can not sin in heaven, and (simultaneously) you have free will.
What you dont understand (if i understand well) is that sin can not exist in heaven, so... sin is outside heaven per facto.
There is no delay, there is fact.
Heaven is perfect and can not have sin inside of it, even a quick instant.

To understand, let us take an example with something that spread so fast that for us on earth it looks like it act instantly.
Let say there is one room with no light, and there is one room with light.
Let say sin is light (it is not, but it is to understand, you could say it is antilight, so darkness, but we dont think this way on earth, so forget this).
So heaven here is the room with no light and earth is the room with light.

The definition of the room, his property, his conceptual being, is that there is no light in heaven.
It is not like on earth where physicality rules the form, here in the perfect world, God's Word rule the form.
So, if there is light (there is sin, this is the fact) it is not compatible with the definition of heaven, with the Word "Heaven".
But it is compatible with earth, the physicalist "room" (or some sort of hell) that exists because of contradiction, ruled by the contradictor.

So where is the sin ?
In earth with "lucifer", not in heaven.
Both properties, position and light, swap together instantly because it is conceptual, not physical...

It is an other way to think, there is no cause preceding effect, just conceptual compatibility.

If you write the above in comprehensible English you have a chance of being understood

 

[Dicart]

If you write the above in comprehensible English you have a chance of being understood

I am prety sure there will be some who will understand even with my bad english.

Saying, "this is not comprehensible" and showing a long text composed of some sub parts saying many times the same with other words and you only says "you" dont understand...
You aren't a puppy needed to be feeded.
If you want to understand (or not but it is up to you), you can do as anyone who want to real understand : You try to understand, you reformulate what you have understood, second party adjust his talk, you reformulate etc.
This is not a question of language, it is a question of method.

Many people around the world do so : They repeat many time the same, with other words, the one who listen explain what he has understand, and the discussion adjust to fit the real expression of the mind.

If you think someone can understand at firts time something you say ... it is because he always know it.
Why do you say something he already know ?
Ego.

 

[Dennis Tate]

I know this is not straight forward but ... you are wrong.
You can not sin in heaven, and (simultaneously) you have free will.
What you dont understand (if i understand well) is that sin can not exist in heaven, so... sin is outside heaven per facto.
There is no delay, there is fact.
Heaven is perfect and can not have sin inside of it, even a quick instant.

To understand, let us take an example with something that spread so fast that for us on earth it looks like it act instantly.
Let say there is one room with no light, and there is one room with light.
Let say sin is light (it is not, but it is to understand, you could say it is antilight, so darkness, but we dont think this way on earth, so forget this).
So heaven here is the room with no light and earth is the room with light.

The definition of the room, his property, his conceptual being, is that there is no light in heaven.
It is not like on earth where physicality rules the form, here in the perfect world, God's Word rule the form.
So, if there is light (there is sin, this is the fact) it is not compatible with the definition of heaven, with the Word "Heaven".
But it is compatible with earth, the physicalist "room" (or some sort of hell) that exists because of contradiction, ruled by the contradictor.

So where is the sin ?
In earth with "lucifer", not in heaven.
Both properties, position and light, swap together instantly because it is conceptual, not physical...

It is an other way to think, there is no cause preceding effect, just conceptual compatibility.

True.... the vibrational levels in heaven are so high that selfish thoughts are impossible there......
Selfishness lies at the heart and core of most sin!

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

We are vibrational Beings
When you take away the way we look, our clothing and even our skin, underneath it all...we are actually vibrational beings made of energy. While most of us may have forgotten (because we are currently caught up with playing the role of being human) this 'energy' is our true or authentic form. It is 'our energy' that is seen by the Spirit World and also by us once we are taken outside of our current physical body at the moment of transition or during the moment we human's call, "physical death". However, it will be in this moment many of us will once and for all give up any fear of death or doubt of an afterlife, as we will immediately realize and completely remember our total connection to the Spirit World.

The moment will be magnificent, and as you allow yourself to notice, you will find that you are being surrounded by one exploding epiphany after another! You will realize the wonder behind all Creation, and you will know, absolutely, that God is certainly real, eternal and atomically thriving; in you and in every single manifested object! You will understand that all things and events hold an intrinsic purpose and for even one of them to go missing, this would tear a huge gulf into the very fabric of time and space. To consider this using human intellect may seem meaningless, but from the perspective of Spirit you will see how vital all things in Creation are and how they all fall perfectly in sync to a masterfully, intelligent design. And then lastly, you will come to realize what an amazing being in Creation YOU ARE! There is no one like you in all of God's Super Universe and there never will be again. You are so important to all of Creation that without you, even "God" would cease to exist. I know...incredible, huh? Well, it is true, and the most wonderful thing about it is .... God would not have it any other way! We are LOVED that much!

 

[Michael 345]

I am prety sure there will be some who will understand

True enough

I will leave it to those who understand to reply

Since I don't understand I'm out

 

[Dicart]

Since I don't understand I'm out

So the curiosity killed the cat ?

 

[Dicart]

True.... the vibrational levels in heaven are so high that selfish thoughts are impossible there......
Selfishness lies at the heart and core of most sin!

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

I am not sure about the "vibrational levels" or about the "energy".

In my opinion, energy is what remain when we have associated all other measurment to facts.
So yes, one could understand energy as the non physicalist part of this world, so spirit etc, but talking about this like that, refer by contradiction to "the material world" (the contradictor, the adversary) , so using the same type of knowledge as the contradictor, saying spirit exist by comparison to matter...

I prefer to speak more clearly : Spirit is, and do not need matter to be.
Same for God, He exists, without the need of Man.
Word (conceptual tought) is sufficient to make something existing.

Now... i remember some ancient toughts, where trying to understand God's situation (because i experienced myself some special situation where i was totaly disconnected from anything) i have imagined that knowing all, be capable of anything, with nobody else around, this would be a very lonyless situation and i even surprised myself having some pity for God (yes that sounds silly but i love God...).
Without any other free will... you would be lonely.

So ok, God with His creation, with Man or other creatures makes God how He actually is.
I am not sure of that, because i am only a very very little one, so i appologise if did some stupid mistake trying to understand whats about (but at least it is the truth about what i think about this subject).