What is free will?

[Write4U]

cluelusshusbund said: ↑
I am free to change my mind at the last instant which makes my choice free.!!!

Not necessarily.
It could just as well be that a person is chemically compelled to change his mind at the last moment.

Perhaps "quorum sensing" has something to do with "concensus will of the mind hive" and "movement in the direction of greatest satisfaction".

--I want some chocolate, but I have to reach through a fire to get the chocolate.--
--I realize that if I reach for the chocolate, I'm gonna get burned!--

My "free will" (desire) demands reaching for the chocolate.
My "survival instinct" demands refraining from reaching for the chocolate.

Result; no satisfaction of the free will (desire) to have chocolate.

Does this "choice" present free will or coerced will?
Which type of will applies ?

p.s. is desire an expression of free will, or is it a compulsory result of a chemical reaction?

 

[Write4U]

Hi there!

Free-will does not exist. If something WILL (this will, that will) then that is determined by definition. The only way you can conclusively state what WILL, is if you can see the future, which would still mean a deterministic state.

Bohm's Implicate Order.

 

[Write4U]

When confronted with an infinite volume of space and asked where the center is, the only answer can be;
"Any where you want (determine) it to be"
Now ...that is freedom!

Wait a minute! The center of an infinite space is where you want (determine) it to be is a false equivalence.
Your physical presence at any point inevitably determines the center for you.
You're always there at the center, whence you are.....

Everything else is conditional (relative).

 

[sculptor]

for most of us
free will is just words
an illusion fostered by a yearning
for freedom

....................................'
The last time we saw ol Lukie
he was a runnin down the road
a rippin off his clothes
and shouting:
"I'M FREE, I'M FREE"

.....................
Well, one of us made it.

(I wonder: What ever happened to ol Lukie?)

 

[Write4U]

(I wonder: What ever happened to ol Kukie?)

He became "centered".......

 

[cluelusshusbund]

It could just as well be that a person is chemically compelled to change his mind at the last moment.

p.s. is desire an expression of free will, or is it a compulsory result of a chemical reaction?

But its my chemicals... so its me forcin my brain to do what it does… so how is that not free will.???

 

[sideshowbob]

So you are faced with the task of placing a white dot using a pen on a white sheet of A4 paper. How is your choice as to where to place that dot not free?

What if I want to place my dot on your paper instead of my own?

 

[sideshowbob]

Which cereal did you choose for breakfast...

I chose Froot Loops but I don't have any.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

I chose Froot Loops but I don't have any.

You'r choice was freely made... perhaps by you'r chemicals compellin you'r brain what to do.!!!

 

[sideshowbob]

You'r choice was freely made...

How is it a choice if there is no result?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

How is it a choice if there is no result?

I see choice as a desire not a result.!!!

 

[sideshowbob]

I see choice as a desire not a result.!!!

So if I offer you the moon or a trillion dollars cash, you call that a free-will choice?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Yes... i choose the trilliobn dollars cash.!!!

 

[sideshowbob]

Yes... i choose the trilliobn dollars cash.!!!

Well, you're not getting it. So what difference does it make what "choice" you made?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

I now suspect that you dont have that trillion dollars... haha
However... had you druther make you'r choices even if it dont necessarly mean you will get the thang desired... or have sombody else make you'r choices.???

 

[sideshowbob]

I now suspect that you dont have that trillion dollars... haha

I was going to say a million but there's a slight chance that I might have that.

However... had you druther make you'r choices even if it dont necessarly mean you will get the thang desired... or have sombody else make you'r choices.???

If there's little chance of getting either, I don't care who makes the "choice".

 

[cluelusshusbund]

If there's little chance of getting either, I don't care who makes the "choice".

Ok... so to you... choice is only free if you get what you choose.???

To me... free choise is when you'r behavior is not hijacked by outside forces such as randomness / reckless drivers.!!!

 

[sideshowbob]

Ok... so to you... choice is only free if you get what you choose.???

Well, yeah. If nothing happens, it's just fantasy.

To me... free choise is when you'r behavior is not hijacked by outside forces such as randomness / reckless drivers.!!!

Even outside forces can't force you to eat Froot Loops you don't have.

 

[Write4U]

But its my chemicals... so its me forcin my brain to do what it does… so how is that not free will.???

No, the chemicals are not yours. 99% of you is bacterial, each cell with it's own 'language".

 

[C C]

But its my chemicals... so its me forcin my brain to do what it does… so how is that not free will.???

Right. Your use of "my" is not referring to an invisible soul owning the body as a whole or a soul owning specific properties and activities of it. But instead a pronoun mediating possessiveness from a conceptual representation of the body as a person or citizen with legal rights (as recognized by government and a variety of other institutions). This practical, contractually agreed upon civil/moral, language-based echo of the body isn't a supernatural agency. It's merely an abstract reflection of the concrete fact that you are your body and whatever processes transpiring therein.

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