Interestingly, it didn't occur to me to make a religion to present to other people or try to win fellow believers.
I was thinking about making my own Religion, for myself - this is why I formulated my criteria in first person singular.
What if I made up my own Religion?
- Thread starter greenberg
- Start date
Interestingly, it didn't occur to me to make a religion to present to other people or try to win fellow believers.
I was thinking about making my own Religion, for myself - this is why I formulated my criteria in first person singular.
A big part of what religion does is get a group of people together so they can all play and feel good together.
A religion with a single member, who would then be the prophet, pope, bishop, priest, and acolyte, would also confess to themselves, and pray, or commune at a service they would also lead, etc.
A religion is generally assumed to mean a group of people, for a start. Who would you tell to wait at the bottom of the mountain, while you climb it, to have a chat with the big guy?
A religion is generally assumed to mean a group of people, for a start. Who would you tell to wait at the bottom of the mountain, while you climb it, to have a chat with the big guy?
I can't specify the terminology yet, other than a general term ("religion") to describe what this what I am doing is about - because it is a work in progress. A work in progress in the sense that I predict that acting on the views I accepted at time T1 will possibly change my experience of myself and the world, so that later at T2, views might be acceptable that at T1 were not acceptable or that I was undecided about them. Perhaps in time and as the results of acting on an accepted set of beliefs will show, I might even change the criteria for accepting new beliefs into my system or for rejecting them.
Perhaps this seems overly ambitious - but I dread the idea of having to settle with one set of beliefs for the rest of my life.
But I want to reply to Lightgigantic's post, too.
That's a very strange dread. What if that one set of beliefs happens to be correct, or the best set of beliefs a person can hold?
How can I possibly know this currently or in advance?
That a particular set of beliefs is correct or the best one a person can hold can only be recognized in hindsight, "after all is said and done".
Namely, I know from experience that acting on a set of beliefs -beliefs that at the time seem correct and best- can produce results that create new circumstances, new states of mind where that old set of beliefs is not correct and best anymore. I extrapolate that the same might be happening throughout my whole life.
But I'm referring specifically to your dread concerning such a correct set of beliefs. That's what I find strange. If anything, we should strive to find the one set that can handle everything we can throw at it. If we were to come to this momentary peace, why is there any fear?
What is someone who does not have revelation nor realization supposed to do?
One can only reasonably work with what one currently has, whatever that might be.
maybe you can get a better idea what I mean by seeing as follows
Of course, seeing things in the long-term perspective is part of reducing suffering.
Like I said above, my worst case scenario is to end up in eternal hellfire.
Image: A lovely meadow with beautiful trees, a big river in the middle. I am in the river up to my nose, with piranhas eating me alive. God is hovering above the water, tapping me on the head, saying "You were told to believe in me, and you didn't! Ha ha, suits you right!" People like Lori and Adstar sitting on the river bank, laughing at me, saying "You should have believes what we told you! It was entirely your own choice to end up the way you did! You are evil and we are loving and good people!" When the piranhas eat me and I lose consciousness, I wake up on the river bank, with a new body. God comes and kicks me back into the water. Piranhas eat on me again. The whole thing repeats infinitely.
Bad case scenarios include being attacked by a pitt bull, losing my job, becoming severely ill, constantly having fire and brimstone Christians trying to convert me.
My ideal belief system would have to be such as to enable me to have some peace of mind even despite the worst case scenario coming true, and of course if the bad case scenarios would come true.
True. But like I said above, one can only work with what one has. And if one is an immoral person, then the value system of an immoral person is what one has to work with, not some ideal, divine value system.
Of course. My belief system would have to include concentration practices and whatever else might be or become necessary.
I don't have contact with God, so this is not something I could count on in the development of my belief system, at least not for now.
Of course.
Because that peace would be, as you said, momentary. Temporary, passing.
And then there would, again, be suffering - and the desire to alleviate it.
You stole #4 from Reformed Myuunitarianism.
Although #3 is kind of a contradiction in philosophy, in part.Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Why don't you read up on how L. Ron Hubbard did it with Scientology? He combined a science fiction novel he'd already written (Battlefield Earth) with a self-help philosophy he was already selling (Dianetics) and called the combination a religion. That way he didn't have to pay any taxes.
Pretty nifty.
Pretty nifty.
As a young man growing up in the south then a few stints around the world in the military I observed many things related to religion. A man can get up in front of a crowd and preach his religion. A few in the crowd will identify with the man, the few turns into many. The more crowds, the more members. Soon, the man finds he has power, money, and influence. I have seen many fleece the flock, and many sound of soul. A higher power is what you make of it. Myself, the higher power is what you do in life, do no harm. Help those that need it when you can. Karma.
greenberg,
Aside from the input of other humans, where do you get this idea from?
Jan.
Aside from the input of other humans, where do you get this idea from?
Jan.
I know it seems absurd. I've had such ideas about God being evil for a long time, I don't think I actually got them in such a form from anyone, I never was into the whole "goth" and "dark" and such scene.
But I have taken popular claims about God to their logical conclusions, and the result is the worst case scenario I've presented above.
My greatest fear is that human action is all for naught - and this can only be if the Universe is chaotic, evil or ruled by an evil or insane god.
And this is why I take that worst case scenario seriously - because my fear that human action might be all for naught is real. God being evil is only part of that fear.
Calculations of likelihood do not mean much to me, though. Just because something isn't likely, does not yet mean that it is impossible. I am afraid that samsara, with all its horrors, could be forever, with no salvation from it. - So in the face of that, what would be the best course of action to take? - that is my question.
greenberg,
But I have taken popular claims about God to their logical conclusions, and the result is the worst case scenario I've presented above.
Can you give few examles of "popular claims about God"?
Jan.
But I have taken popular claims about God to their logical conclusions, and the result is the worst case scenario I've presented above.
Can you give few examles of "popular claims about God"?
Jan.
Evil exists. Evil does walk the earth. I have come across individuals that exude a real darkness, makes the hair stand up on end. Good exists, as a
balance in life. Not always apparent. If I was God, I would ask of man, "How could you stand there and let this type of suffering go on? How could you let so many die of hunger? Why all of the unjust? Why all the war? I have given you a gift of life and an unbound curiosity, how could this happen?" Something to think about. Not really into a lot of religion or anything, just know about evil and what little good I have seen. As far as a course of action, my bonehead stats professor from MIT put it simply, "It is better to die a christian and be wrong about life after death than to die an atheist and be wrong about God.Yes -
- God will judge and send people either to eternal heaven or to eternal hellfire. This way, justice will be done.
- The righteous will rejoice when justice is done.
- Whether a person believes in God or not is entirely the person's choice.
- God has created everyone in his own image.
- Humans have an evil nature, that is what they really are and will remain so forever. But God has mercy on them, this is why He lets them live.
- God is infinitely benevolent and merciful.
- God will smite and punish those who oppose Him.
- God will rescue His flock.
- God has created the Universe and everything in it.
- If a person does something evil, this is entirely the person's choice. God has nothing to do with the choices people make.
- Anything good that a person does is inspired by God.
- Good actions mean nothing on Judgment Day if you don't believe in Jesus.
Last edited:
There are also some popular claims about God which are usually only implied by many theists, and rarely or never expressed -
- Everyone who does not believe in God, opposes God.
- My kind of theism is the right kind of theism. Besides, it's not even my kind of theism, it is Jesus's theism.
- I know God better than you, my pagan listener, do.
- You are a stupid pagan and this stupidity is entirely your choice. You are willfully rebelling.
- Everyone already knows God, it is impossible not to know God. Those who say they don't know God, are lying.
- God loves you. If you can't see that, it's your problem, not God's.