What does Religion create.....

A

alexb123

The Amish web page is fast!
Valued Senior Member
that cannot be created by another belief or means?

I believe that Religion offers nothing at all that cannot be created by some other method. I also believe that with a slight alteration the methods used to create Religious beliefs can be channelled to create evil acts.

If Religion cannot create something unique then it must be the final proof that it is man-made!
 
There's one major separating factor: There is religion, then there is faith.

Religion is a form of control, purpotrated upon the masses by a hierarchy of individuals who justify the existence of said hierarchy by it being "god's will" and they are the "voice of god on earth." Most of the time, the hierarchy uses the religion to maintain control for themselves, and gain money/power from said control.

Faith gives an individual comfort when they need it, guidance when they seek it, and some bizarre way of justifying their existence as being "god's will," and that they are following "god's plan." Sure it may not be scientific, but for some people, it's all they have.

Religion breeds suffering and hatred and has done that since the first church was founded in Sumeria. Faith at least has some justification for existence.
 
Religion can be a basis for (mostly) good morals, yet it creates more problems than it solves; see the Middle East.
 
What does Religion create?
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Problems of unimaginable scale. From the first idiot who invented the notion of some "force" god or whatever, to those who contradicted said idiot, religion has caused nothing but problems for humanity, stagnation of scientific discovery "see dark ages" to countless wars, inquisitions, crusades, witch burnings, and the list still continues to this day adding up the evil shit, religion has brought to humanity!

The insanity will either destroy humanity, or the masses will get their heads out of their ass and realize, we are truly on our own here, we either survive, or finish in human genocide for stupid ancient idealogies..

Godless
 
Godless said:
Problems of unimaginable scale. From the first idiot who invented the notion of some "force" god or whatever, to those who contradicted said idiot, religion has caused nothing but problems for humanity, stagnation of scientific discovery "see dark ages" to countless wars, inquisitions, crusades, witch burnings, and the list still continues to this day adding up the evil shit, religion has brought to humanity!

The insanity will either destroy humanity, or the masses will get their heads out of their ass and realize, we are truly on our own here, we either survive, or finish in human genocide for stupid ancient idealogies..

Godless
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I don't believe that's religion's problem at all. It's the people using the religion for their own purposes that cause that, not the other way around.

I can completely understand being against religion and not believing in anything, but I personaly don't think it's right to blame religion for the problems.

Basicaly, all religions try to get people to act nice. But, of course, people have a distinctive need for violence (I would blame the fact that we no longer hunt for our own food. But, we still have the internal instinct to kill. Of course, just an opinion.)

I think that the less religious ones are the one's with the problem. If someone is truely into their faith, there isn't going to be any violence from that person. Religion, in most cases, teaches you to not harm anyone. For any reason, because their "Gods" will take care of it; Normaly, "in the end" of time.

So, in the end, it's the people with bad morale behavior and no "real belief" in their faith that are the problem. I personaly think it's because no religion is really believable enough without a reasonable doubt.

I find it odd that God would try to speak/teach people through man written books anyways. If god were to speak to a few men to write something, I should be rest assured that he can speak to all of us.
 
Basicaly, all religions try to get people to act nice.
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Man have you ever picked up the bible or the quaran? It's basically literally in support of violence.
 
Godless said:
Man have you ever picked up the bible or the quaran? It's basically literally in support of violence.
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No, actually they enact the idea's that god will take care of that. The bible directly states to Never harm anyone. Not even your enemy. It states to love your enemies as you would love your friend. If they hit you, to let them hit you again, ect.

Perhaps you've read the wrong texts or have taken things out of context(which alot of ignorent people end up doing on accident.)
 
Godless said:
See folkes; here's the famous "OUT OF CONTEXT" for the negative parts of religious rhetorical crap, that I've been decent enough to leave out

:rolleyes:

Unitl now!

Cruelty & Violence in the bable

cruelty and violence in the quaran

But wait a second these quotes directly from the bable&quaran are "OUT OF CONTEXT" ;) :rolleyes:
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You'll have to give me a second to read through and double check these quotes against other references. (It's hard argueing for something that's not only been translated but also contradicts itself many times.Edit: Of course, depending on the translations. I do believe alot of the main problems come from the translations.)

And I'll also have to state that i never finished reading the bible. Mostly because I stopped after it contradicted itself too many times for me to have a justifiable answer for everything(edit: This was after reading through genesis and exodus. I did, however, skip through and read other parts as well. In my mind, alot of it contradicted what was said. Mainly "God says he loves all his enemies and we should do the same, yet he destroys them all with horrible wickedness and then send them to an eternity of torture. That, in my mind, is not loving thy enemy.) Poor christians are hard to stick up for.

Edited:

Anyhow, I'm not talking about the bible stating that God can be violent. This is already known by even the believers. What I need is proof that states god orders people to be mean or violent.

So far, what's been stated in these quotes are nothing but gods anger and one temptation on abraham. A "test", as you will. And, god interveined on his temptation against abraham. So, still nothing stating that humans should kill eachother or be violent in any way. I suppose you could come to the conclusion that sacrifices are "violent" in a way. But, that would lay in the eye of the beholder. Morales are different for different people.

You'd have to try again, but I do believe it's impossible to find something in the bible that directs human beings to be mean. These quotes are just god being angry or wanting sacrifices.
 
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Poor christians are hard to stick up for.
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I don't try and stick up for them, only try to re-educate them. However I find it futile, the object here is not to get in a battle of words and idealogies, only to get them to question their own faith. Afterall most atheist I know came from religious background who did question their faiths. Me included.
 
Ironic! Your "re-education" is called "brainwashing" when it's someone else's agenda. You are, for such purposes, that which you most despise.

I was a good Catholic boy until about the age of twelve, and during that time, no sermon or catechism I ever attended ever preached violence to anyone. Not once.

If the world's dominant religions did preach violence, we would have a difficult time surviving, as most of us would be killing each other in the name of God. It does happen today, but statistically, it's a single grain of sand in a whole beach. On average, a human today is more likely to kill himself than someone else.

There are accounts both in the Bible and the Quran of warfare, the sources of most of the violent passages you will find from either book. None of these violent verses are presented as instructions to the reader, and any interpretation of them as such would be rather convoluted. Neither the Bible nor the Quran advocate violence. Claims to the contrary are disinformation.

The current religious violence in the Middle East is the result of the aforementioned brainwashing - backed by political agendas - not any serious study of Muslim, Christian, or Jewish holy books. Many Palestinian children are taught from birth unconditional hatred for the Jews. Westerners are political scapegoats for the power-hungry leaders of terrorist organizations. The "infidelity" of the West is used to justify its villification, but this justification finds its basis primarily in the fatwahs of terrorist spiritual leaders, not in the Quran; as stated before, any call for violence of any sort based on the Quran would not hold up under scrutiny.

Your post, Godless, is not even an argument for atheism. It is nothing more than baseless hatemongering.
 
Ironic! Your "re-education" is called "brainwashing" when it's someone else's agenda.
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Actually bugger the one that has been BRAINDRAINED is the people who like yourself has been (INDOCTRINATED) since shildhood.
 
Actually bugger the one that has been BRAINDRAINED is the people who like yourself has been (INDOCTRINATED) since shildhood.
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Honestly, how can you say that and retain any degree of credibility? I, the "BRAINDRAINED" one, have told you exactly what I and every other Catholic were supposedly brainwashed into believing; that is, violence is unacceptable under any circumstances. Are you saying this belief is wrong? Or are you insinuating that I have been lying to you and am secretly plotting your death with my other Catholic buddies?
 
Honestly, how can you say that and retain any degree of credibility? I, the "BRAINDRAINED" one, have told you exactly what I and every other Catholic were supposedly brainwashed into believing; that is, violence is unacceptable under any circumstances.
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Explain the crusades, inquistions, or were these people reading the godamn bible out of context?
 
Godless said:
Explain the crusades, inquistions, or were these people reading the godamn bible out of context?
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They weren't reading the Bible at all. The first Crusade was promoted by Pope Urban II in an attempt to help the Byzantine Empire take care of its Turk problem around Jerusalem. The later Crusades were basically sequels to that conflict.

http://www.medievalcrusades.com

The Inquisition was started by Pope Innocent III with the intention of combatting heresy among Christians. It was executed with a zeal that eventually spread it to members of other faiths.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html

The decisions of two leaders are hardly a pretext for the condemnation of an entire holy book. It's like blaming the Constitution for the actions of a President.
 
Perishiko said:
You'd have to try again, but I do believe it's impossible to find something in the bible that directs human beings to be mean. These quotes are just god being angry or wanting sacrifices.
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Here's a few verses:


"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)


"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)


The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)


"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)





Just the tip of the proverbial iceberg!
Lot's more what that came from.
But hey like Godless said..."we took it out of context"...if that's the case then maybe when we read the good and sweet stuff that's in the bible we are also taking it 'out of context' and it means just the opposite.
 
baumgarten said:
I was a good Catholic boy until about the age of twelve, and during that time, no sermon or catechism I ever attended ever preached violence to anyone. Not once.
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That's because the catholic church has always had a policy of not encouraging people to read the bible...rather, just direct them to all the nice and sweet, safe passages.

Logically, all church leaders know,catholic or protestant that if they did quote all the murder and mayhem in the bible they would have much fewer believers than they do today.

Again, one of the big reasons I left christianity. I still believe in god , but I consider myself more spiritual in nature now...without all the religous dogma, and church leaders who wish me not to think for myself...hence I may discover the truth of it all!
 
Religion creates satisfaction that doesn't require shelter from another object to be mainatined - for instance money, while accepted as a source of satisfaction, only gives satisfaction if the things money can buy also exist - compared to god, all other desirable objects are inferior
 
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