What do religions base their behaviors on?

superluminal

superluminal

I am MalcomR
Valued Senior Member
If it is not the books of their religion (bible, quran, etc) then what is it? How do they decide which parts to heed and which ones can be safely ignored? Like modern "good" xians and muslims tend to discount the murderous, violent, abusive parts. How is it that they don't stone the shit out of people for simple things? Or poke out eyes or cut off limbs? Or destroy infidels?

Seems to me that what "radical" xians and muslims do is closer to what their god really wants. And that the umm... pussies of their respective religions are just cherry-picking the parts that they find morally OK. Seems like self deception on their part. It must offend their god(s) something fierce to have his published work abused in such a way.

So, why do people continue to call themselves xian or muslim when they don't really follow their own books well at all?
 
superluminal said:
If it is not the books of their religion (bible, quran, etc) then what is it? How do they decide which parts to heed and which ones can be safely ignored? Like modern "good" xians and muslims tend to discount the murderous, violent, abusive parts. How is it that they don't stone the shit out of people for simple things? Or poke out eyes or cut off limbs? Or destroy infidels?

Seems to me that what "radical" xians and muslims do is closer to what their god really wants. And that the umm... pussies of their respective religions are just cherry-picking the parts that they find morally OK. Seems like self deception on their part. It must offend their god(s) something fierce to have his published work abused in such a way.

So, why do people continue to call themselves xian or muslim when they don't really follow their own books well at all?
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i don't think that, in regards to the bible, you're suggesting a comprehensive approach, and i think a comprehensive approach is best.
 
Signal said:
Why do others have a problem with that?
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Because they are utterly consistent and act at all times as if their official beliefs were true. You can never point at their actions and say they do not seem to fit with their beliefs. Further none of their beliefs sit the least bit uncomfortably with any others. And they act by their beliefs the same way in all contexts. So they expect this kind of pure consistency in others.

I mean fair is fair.
 
religion is just like anything else in the world. it can be used for good, or for bad. it just depends on who is using it and why. people are imperfect, so anything they attempt to apply will most definitely be applied imperfectly. so ultimately, intentions are the most important thing to analyze, imo.
 
@superluminal

The only real thing is fear of death, which you can find in every living thing. It's an absolute fear. From the pain and fear of simple cut in your hand to being beaten or pointed a gun is consciously or unconsciously linked to fear of death.
Now, put that into an intelligent species, it is bound to make an order from it.
In short,
-We are intelligent. Look at the things we can do, we must be put on this planet by a greater intelligence, which hopefully and pridefully is at our side.
-For the reasons stated above we just can't die and vanish forever. Certainly we should go somewhere, we should have something immortal in us.
-We don't have conscious at the moment of birth or death.
-It's also important who is breeding from whom. (The last decades giving that freedom doesn't count compared to previous thousands of years)
-And also important who is leaving what to whom after they die.

Now we have a basic system. It's time to paint it with fairytales so it could be told away, more written down to go on. Make the snake eat an apple, put the baby in a basket throw him into the river, desert another in a cave... Repeat it, repeat it with might for hundreds and hundreds of years. Annihilate whoever doesn't fit. Congratulations, you have a religion.

There isn't anything holy or divine. All those books, manuscripts or whatever there is written and told are made up by people who tried to create some order somewhere.

Unfortunately, those stories provided -and will- to most of the people in the world. Identity, tradition, inner peace, divine joy, power, being part of something greater than themselves. The ability to feel more than a carbon compound that's going to seep into earth in 80 years.

So, it's/was NEVER important if all the rules are followed or some are over looked. Some change, some doesn't, some change back again. This is religion, all they need is to believe and have faith in it. It's NOT open to logic.
 
pavlosmarcos said:
Care to explain where it does this, without an ulterior motive?
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i think there are a lot of great truths and philosophies and lessons to be learned in scripture and sacred texts, and religion disseminates the texts. and while i don't always agree with others' interpretations of the texts, i do enjoy some viewpoints offered up by those who study them, or even better, who live them.

i also very much appreciate the charity that many religions perpetuate. i know that a lot of shelters and food banks in my area are funded and run by religious people.
 
Lori_7 said:
i think there are a lot of great truths and philosophies and lessons to be learned in scripture and sacred texts, and religion disseminates the texts.
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Really? After all of these millennia? After all of the discussion, debate, strife, despair, analysis, study, devotion, anguish, and fear? You or anyone else thinks there's anything worthwhile waiting for humanity in a tired book or two of naive mythology? No, I think not.

In fact, it's pretty well proven isn't it? You can't have it both ways. Either it works and is inspiring enough to humanity to make a real positive difference, or it doesn't work and leaves everyone, at best, no worse off or (as we all know) causes strife and division and makes things worse. I can't think of a better definition of religion.

Religion: A divisive, strife inducing mechanism designed to keep masses of humans ignorant and dependent on a tiny minority of ego maniacal "leaders".

Be honest. That's how it really works. Look around and honestly assess the real role of religion in human affairs.

i also very much appreciate the charity that many religions perpetuate. i know that a lot of shelters and food banks in my area are funded and run by religious people.
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Yeah sure. Big deal. There are plenty of secular charities too. Google it.
 
superluminal said:
Really? After all of these millennia? After all of the discussion, debate, strife, despair, analysis, study, devotion, anguish, and fear? You or anyone else thinks there's anything worthwhile waiting for humanity in a tired book or two of naive mythology? No, I think not.
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Relying exclusively on a relatively few people's "discussion, debate, strife, despair, analysis, study, devotion, anguish, and fear" without as much as reading a verse every day oneself is rather shallow and cannot rightfully be expected to produce any kind of satisfactory result..
 
superluminal said:
In fact, it's pretty well proven isn't it? You can't have it both ways. Either it works and is inspiring enough to humanity to make a real positive difference, or it doesn't work and leaves everyone, at best, no worse off or (as we all know) causes strife and division and makes things worse. I can't think of a better definition of religion.

Religion: A divisive, strife inducing mechanism designed to keep masses of humans ignorant and dependent on a tiny minority of ego maniacal "leaders".

Be honest. That's how it really works. Look around and honestly assess the real role of religion in human affairs.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep looking only at those relatively few angry, frustrated, militant self-proclaimed Christians?

There are so many religious people in this world whom you apparently do not even take notice of.
 
Doreen said:
Can you explain where any system that does good might not have an ulterior motive?
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I can only answer, by using examples, The Médecins Sans Frontières Go into war-torn/disaster areas with no other thought than to help the needy.
http://www.msf.org/

There are many others here are a few.
http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Charities
http://www.humanism.org.uk/humanism/humanism-today/humanists-doing/charities
http://www.humanistcharities.org/
http://www.atheistcharity.org
http://earthward.net
http://www.humanitas.nl
http://www.hivos.nl/
http://www.humanist.net
http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocindia.htm

Each person I know that is an humanist/atheist, gives heavily to charities. They make no distinction between religious or non-religious. They simply give. It comes from the heart not through the churches “suggestion”. To me this is the far more noble an ideal.
An atheistic perspective indicates a strong affirmation of humanity, without passing the buck of responsibility to the intangible concept of a deity. They are, if anything, more firmly invested in benefiting humanity as a whole than religious folks.
Could you possibly show me where the people above could have an ulterior motive other than the knowledge that they have helped. If you could possibly claim that as an ulterior motive that is.
Signal said:
Why do you keep looking only at those relatively few angry, frustrated, militant self-proclaimed Christians?

There are so many religious people in this world whom you apparently do not even take notice of.
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Because those people given the right motivation will become the angry, frustrated, militant, and murderous, All theist and I do mean all, are extremist/fundamentalist, when what there doing is for what they call righteous reasons. (If they are not then they cease being theist.)
 
superluminal said:
If it is not the books of their religion (bible, quran, etc) then what is it? How do they decide which parts to heed and which ones can be safely ignored? Like modern "good" xians and muslims tend to discount the murderous, violent, abusive parts. How is it that they don't stone the shit out of people for simple things? Or poke out eyes or cut off limbs? Or destroy infidels?

Seems to me that what "radical" xians and muslims do is closer to what their god really wants. And that the umm... pussies of their respective religions are just cherry-picking the parts that they find morally OK. Seems like self deception on their part. It must offend their god(s) something fierce to have his published work abused in such a way.

So, why do people continue to call themselves xian or muslim when they don't really follow their own books well at all?
Click to expand...
basically it boils down to what one considers a precept and what one considers a detail .... assuming that you don't hunt down beta videos on ebay, you shouldn't have a problem with this notion
:D
 
superluminal said:
Really? After all of these millennia? After all of the discussion, debate, strife, despair, analysis, study, devotion, anguish, and fear? You or anyone else thinks there's anything worthwhile waiting for humanity in a tired book or two of naive mythology? No, I think not.

In fact, it's pretty well proven isn't it? You can't have it both ways. Either it works and is inspiring enough to humanity to make a real positive difference, or it doesn't work and leaves everyone, at best, no worse off or (as we all know) causes strife and division and makes things worse. I can't think of a better definition of religion.

Religion: A divisive, strife inducing mechanism designed to keep masses of humans ignorant and dependent on a tiny minority of ego maniacal "leaders".

Be honest. That's how it really works. Look around and honestly assess the real role of religion in human affairs.
Click to expand...

i think you've confused what i've said. i said that religion disseminates the texts and that the texts contain the truths and philosophies that many individuals find to be beneficial, including myself.

to me, it's not about religious organizations or egomaniacal leaders, it's about a very personal enlightenment.




Yeah sure. Big deal. There are plenty of secular charities too. Google it.
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certainly you realize that wasn't the question that was asked. :confused:
 
Lori_7 said:
religion is just like anything else in the world. it can be used for good, or for bad. it just depends on who is using it and why. people are imperfect, so anything they attempt to apply will most definitely be applied imperfectly. so ultimately, intentions are the most important thing to analyze, imo.
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How can superstition be used for good?
 
Lori_7 said:
i think there are a lot of great truths and philosophies and lessons to be learned in scripture and sacred texts,
Click to expand...
As there is in any book, all have pearls of wisdom within there pages, Aesop's fables and a Thousand and one nights for instants are just two ancient mythological books with an abundance of wisdom. They have been literally thousands if not tens of thousands of books written over the last six + millennia. The Bible is just a collection of some of those stories.
Lori said:
i also very much appreciate the charity that many religions perpetuate. i know that a lot of shelters and food banks in my area are funded and run by religious people.
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As do I. However they are all done with an ulterior motive.
 
pavlosmarcos said:
As there is in any book, all have pearls of wisdom within there pages, Aesop's fables and a Thousand and one nights for instants are just two ancient mythological books with an abundance of wisdom. They have been literally thousands if not tens of thousands of books written over the last six + millennia. The Bible is just a collection of some of those stories.
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its not clear why you equate didactic narratives (or narratives that have a didactic portion) with mythology

As do I. However they are all done with an ulterior motive.
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please provide an example of a charity that doesn't have an ulterior motive
 
lightgigantic said:
its not clear why you equate didactic narratives (or narratives that have a didactic portion) with mythology
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Are you seriously suggesting, that Aesop's fables/the Bible are real stories based on fact. or are they simply for pleasure, entertainment and education. I am surprised that you or anyone else for that matter, could think mythology was anything other than didactic.
lightgigantic said:
please provide an example of a charity that doesn't have an ulterior motive
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Already did so, at post 13.
 
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