What defines a religion?

[maxg]

no, it is true that dao exists, the proof is infront of your face right now. it is an empty framework which allows physical energy/matter to exist. take 1 cubic meter of space infront of you, what is that space?. true it holds millions of particles and various other forms of micro sized matter/energy. but what are those particles and energy floating around in?. it is a dimension of empty space that we cannot detect or sense. if you for instance, take away all of the particles and energy out of the cubic meter infront of you, what are you left with? empty space.

this empty space/force/frame is dao. it is not faith based, it is based on logic.

peace.

Well that understanding of Taoism may just be a philosophy. I think that among writers on Eastern philosophy it is common to distinguish that understanding from Taoism as a religion.

Actually it may be better to think of it as a spectrum of ideas, with a purely philosophical conception of the Tao at one end and the full blown conception of spirits and beings that make up Taoism as a religion at the other.

There is a lot to Taoist writings (including a political philosphy, a perspective on medicine/health, etc.) and I've always been impressed by the ability of some of those writings to encompass so much with so few words (so I guess you can a retoric to the list as well).

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Well that understanding of Taoism may just be a philosophy. I think that among writers on Eastern philosophy it is common to distinguish that understanding from Taoism as a religion.

Actually it may be better to think of it as a spectrum of ideas, with a purely philosophical conception of the Tao at one end and the full blown conception of spirits and beings that make up Taoism as a religion at the other.

There is a lot to Taoist writings (including a political philosphy, a perspective on medicine/health, etc.) and I've always been impressed by the ability of some of those writings to encompass so much with so few words (so I guess you can a retoric to the list as well).

Dao is a way of life in its true essence, you are correct with what you say in the above, but the way lao tzu meant it to be taken was not as a religion including spirits and supernatural elements. it is about constant change in the true un-spoiled philosophy, a logical view of how the universe operates.

it can be branched off in so many directions nowdays, linked to feng shui, taiji and a range of other eastern influences. but the raw teachings of dao is supposed to expose you to the start of a way of life. not holding to religious tradition, but watching and understanding the natural order of the universe, the constant change of everything except the unseen empty force wich remains the same eternal.

lao tzu (or whoever was the real man behind dao scripture) was a logical man, not a faith based thinker. if anybody was to be my idol it would be him, never straying from the center of possibility. he figured out the true universal structure and tried to explain it. daoism is a philosophy, but one to live by and start your life with, to me it teaches you to stay grounded and not stray too far out of the center.


peace.

 

[maxg]

lao tzu (or whoever was the real man behind dao scripture) was a logical man, not a faith based thinker. if anybody was to be my idol it would be him, never straying from the center of possibility. he figured out the true universal structure and tried to explain it. daoism is a philosophy, but one to live by and start your life with, to me it teaches you to stay grounded and not stray too far out of the center.

peace.

I've got a wooden figure of Lao Tzu on my bureau (and don't consider it a religou icon ) so I'm with you on that. Chuang-Tzu too is quite brillant.

If you want a good book on Taoist philosophy in context I found A.C. Graham's Disputers of the Tao an excellent read and also has a pretty good discussion on what religion means within Chinese culture. There were Confucians who argued that gods didn't exist but that religous ceremonies should still be practiced for the value of the ceremony itself. Where does that fit in with a Western conception of religion?

 

[cosmictraveler]

When one person or group of people try to influence others into believing what they say is true about anything that cannot be proven but deals with faith.

 

[Saquist]

What defines religion.

Ideally Faith and Works. According to the Bible. Righteousness is plainly evident by the fruitage of works. Logical.

Seeing as 99% have a Much Faith but a lack of works there is no wonder why so many are turning away from organized religion. Such as it should be. However many have not lost they're believe in God as a result.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I've got a wooden figure of Lao Tzu on my bureau (and don't consider it a religou icon ) so I'm with you on that. Chuang-Tzu too is quite brillant.

If you want a good book on Taoist philosophy in context I found A.C. Graham's Disputers of the Tao an excellent read and also has a pretty good discussion on what religion means within Chinese culture. There were Confucians who argued that gods didn't exist but that religous ceremonies should still be practiced for the value of the ceremony itself. Where does that fit in with a Western conception of religion?

i have one aswell on my bed-side table . also with many other figures including the 3 immortals, various buddha statues and a lucky cat with his 1 paw raied.


i will look out for that book i have not read it so far, thanks for the tip. im not exactly sure where that fits into western religion. im not sure if it does fit into western religion atall actualy, unless you include people who pay lip service in church :shrug:

peace.

 

[iceaura]

If there is ritual and worship there is religion. Gods, transcendences, etc, are optional.

The alleged effect of at least some religious practice is to remove the illusion of material vs transcendent from ones worldview.

 

[Hapsburg]

I don't think rituals and worship are necessary.
I think the core part of any religion is the ethics system involved. That is, and should be, the main area of concentration of any religious ideal.

 

[one_raven]

I don't think rituals and worship are necessary.
I think the core part of any religion is the ethics system involved. That is, and should be, the main area of concentration of any religious ideal.

So what, in your mind, distinguishes religion from political party, or philosophy or belief?
If it is not distinguaishable, then the term becomes fairly meaningless.

I am not saying that someone should simply quote the definition in a dictionary to find meaning, but there is a reason that every definition mentions, the supernatural, divinity or some other sacred force.
The divine is what separates religion from philosophy - otherwise it is simply philosophy, why give it a different name?

 

[Hapsburg]

So what, in your mind, distinguishes religion from political party, or philosophy or belief?

Measure of devotion to that ideal, whether it be political, philosophical, or whatever. It is the degree to which one is devoted to one's philosophy that determines if it is a religion to that person.

 

[one_raven]

Measure of devotion to that ideal, whether it be political, philosophical, or whatever. It is the degree to which one is devoted to one's philosophy that determines if it is a religion to that person.

I couldn't disagree more.