What belief in God really means.

[JBrentonK]

Now I don't know if you know it or not, but belief in God must mean something. As a theist I am blood suckingly desiring the Atheists to admit their fallacies, and I an whole heartedly awaiting conversion to the title of theist.

Definitions please: Ahmm.

IMHO, a theist is a person who believes in God, so, other definitions aside.... An ATHEIST is a person who does not believe in God. .... And an Agnostic is a person who does not know what to believe in.

These must be the correct definitions. So correct me if I am wrong please.

If you do not believe in God, there is no hope for anything anymore. Anything supernatural, or otherwise, hopeful. You are just without and without, like a sponge with no water. I am sure you have heard of friends before. Ever want to have friends? Well, without the supernatural, you cannot have friends! I know some atheists are grinning right now, so, I figured it is time to submit the topic. Perhaps you will enjoy it. Getting ready for a lesson in religion on the other hand, I am thoroughly prepared to wait as the Atheists admit that some God must exist.

Please follow the suit of the thread and prepare with me for a feast!

JBrentonK

 

[spidergoat]

You convinced me, there is a God. Because hope. And friends.

 

[JBrentonK]

Sartre was an atheist.

 

[Dywyddyr]

IMHO, a theist is a person who believes in God, so, other definitions aside.... An ATHEIST is a person who does not believe in God. .... And an Agnostic is a person who does not know what to believe in.
These must be the correct definitions. So correct me if I am wrong please

You're wrong and they're not correct. Well, one of them isn't.
Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief, it's orthogonal to that - it's possible to be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.
Agnosticism is a stance on what can be known about "god/s".
Theism/ atheism is a stance on belief.

Well, without the supernatural, you cannot have friends!

The existence of jam roly poly shows you're wrong.

I am thoroughly prepared to wait as the Atheists admit that some God must exist.

Unlikely based on your "arguments" so far.

 

[JBrentonK]

You're wrong and they're not correct. Well, one of them isn't.
Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief, it's orthogonal to that - it's possible to be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.
Agnosticism is a stance on what can be known about "god/s".
Theism/ atheism is a stance on belief.


The existence of jam roly poly shows you're wrong.


Unlikely based on your "arguments" so far.

Perhaps you can enlighten us then dywyddyr, give us the definitions for belief in a God! There is a God dywyddyr!

 

[spidergoat]

Maybe talk about our fallacies? Is there any good reason to believe you

 

[Dywyddyr]

Perhaps you can enlighten us then dywyddyr, give us the definitions for belief in a God!

Which part of "one of the definitions was wrong" followed by an explanation of "agnostic" did you not understand?
A theist believes in god, an atheist doesn't.
That's it.

There is a God dywyddyr!

That's an unsupported belief, not a fact.

 

[JBrentonK]

Dywyddr I just reported your post for spam.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Dywyddr I just reported your post for spam.

Is that because it was too complicated for you or simply because you couldn't offer any rational reply?

 

[JBrentonK]

Maybe talk about our fallacies? Is there any good reason to believe you?

He says there's an agnostic atheist and an agnostic theist? Agnostic theist just doesn't make any sense. Btw I have supportable grounds for reporting his post

 

[spidergoat]

That's true. An agnostic theist doesn't know if there is a God, but believes there is one. An agnostic atheist doesn't know there isn't a God, but doesn't believe it either. Gnosticism means "knowing". Agnosticism means "not knowing".

 

[spidergoat]

Maybe talk about our fallacies? Is there any good reason to believe you

I mean, any good reason except for a selfish concern for hope and friends? I can deal with lack of hope and friends if it means I'm reasonably sure I'm not believing in something which is false.

 

[gmilam]

.... And an Agnostic is a person who does not know what to believe in.

Not true...

But even if it was, this person obviously does not believe in God - and would therefore be an atheist.

 

[Dywyddyr]

He says there's an agnostic atheist and an agnostic theist? Agnostic theist just doesn't make any sense.

Doesn't make any sense to you, possibly.

And several others - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...d=0CC4Qyjc&ei=8DPmVIu0MKKe7gb2ooHoDw#imgdii=_

Or Wiki - Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims – especially metaphysical and religious claims such as whether or not God, the divine or the supernatural exist – are unknown and perhaps unknowable.

Btw I have supportable grounds for reporting his post

I'm not sure that your ignorance of the subject matter is supportable grounds for reporting my post as spam.

 

[JBrentonK]

No dywyddyr that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

[Yazata]

Now I don't know if you know it or not, but belief in God must mean something.

One would certainly think so. But I think that when many people say that they believe in God, they don't really have anything very concrete or specific in mind. 'God' seems to often be a label for a vague sense of transcendence or for the idea that there is a 'higher' power than human beings in the universe.

As a theist I am blood suckingly desiring the Atheists to admit their fallacies, and I an whole heartedly awaiting conversion to the title of theist.

Dream on.

Definitions please: Ahmm.

IMHO, a theist is a person who believes in God, so, other definitions aside.... An ATHEIST is a person who does not believe in God.

Ok, as far as it goes. There are still questions about what the word 'God' and 'believes in' mean. I think that I'd say that theists are those who affirm the existence of 'God' (whatever that word means) while atheists deny the existence of 'God', typically leaving it up to the theists to define it.

It should probably be pointed out that many Christians use 'believe in' to refer to attitudes like faith, trust, confidence and loyalty, which go far beyond simple affirmation of the existence of something.

.... And an Agnostic is a person who does not know what to believe in.

Sort of. Agnosticism is the view that knowledge of transcendental or supernatural matters isn't currently available, and might not be possible for human beings to ever acquire, even in principle.

I consider myself to simultaneously be an atheist and an agnostic.

When it comes to the big metaphysical questions, such as first-cause or why there is something rather than nothing, I have to admit that I don't have a clue what the answers might be (assuming that there are answers). So I'm an agnostic regarding the more philosophical definitions of 'God'.

But when it comes to the personalized deities of religious tradition, the Biblical Yahweh, the Quran's Allah, or the Gita's Krishna, I'm comfortable saying that I don't believe that these kind of figures have an existing referrant. So I'm an atheist regarding the familiar figures of religious mythology.

If you do not believe in God, there is no hope for anything anymore. Anything supernatural, or otherwise, hopeful. You are just without and without, like a sponge with no water.

What makes you say that? You seem to be suggesting that all hope is religious hope, and that all religious hope is theistic hope. I think that's clearly wrong.

I am sure you have heard of friends before. Ever want to have friends? Well, without the supernatural, you cannot have friends!

Millions of people's personal experience contradicts that, including my own. I'm curious why you would even say it.

Please follow the suit of the thread and prepare with me for a feast!

With you serving yourself up as the entree?

 

[JBrentonK]

Belief in God is simply that alone, belief in God.

 

[Dywyddyr]

No dywyddyr that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Again, this is your ignorance showing.

Theism is the belief that "god/s" exist.
Atheism is not believing that.

Gnosticism is the statement that there is something about "god/s" that can be known.
Agnosticism is the position that nothing can be known.

Thus an gnostic theist will claim that A) God exists [theism] AND B) something can be KNOWN [gnosticism].
An agnostic theist will believe [theism] but that we can't ever know [agnosticism].
And etc for the a/gnostic atheist.

A/gnosticism is not a position of belief but a statement/ stance about what is knowable.

("Known" in this case is used in the sense of "proven to be factual").

Your initial argument was wrong (even by your own wording), viz.:
1) IMHO, a theist is a person who believes in God
2) An ATHEIST is a person who does not believe in God.
3) And an Agnostic is a person who does not know what to believe in.
Number 3 is undecided - i.e. he doesn't actually believe. That makes him an agnostic (by YOUR definition) and atheist automatically.

One is EITHER a theist OR an atheist.
You either believe or you don't.
There is not, and cannot be, a third position.

 

[Yazata]

He says there's an agnostic atheist and an agnostic theist?

I consider myself an agnostic atheist.

Agnostic theist just doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does. Agnostic theism is actually quite common in the history of mystical theology. It's called 'negative' or 'apophatic' theology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology

It's the view that God transcends all human concepts and categories, and hence isn't an object of experience and knowledge that can be known in the way that other more mundane objects are known.

 

[spidergoat]

Belief in God is simply that alone, belief in God.

Fine, why argue about semantics. What good reason is there to believe you? How did you arrive at your belief?