What ARE 'UFOs' and 'ET' contacts?

duendy

Registered Senior Member
I am wanting to try and survey the different view points as to what people have and do believ are UFOs and reported contacts with 'ET's

for example, we know about Jung, beliving it was a psychin phenomena, and there's Jacques Valle who sees a connection between old reports of seeing objects in the sky and modern equivalent...etc
others here seem to be stikin to 'earth lights' as THE explanation for ALL of the reported phemena

so what do YOU ythink about this?
 
I think its bogus...

Its similar to childhood fears, but only when adults grow up their fears are more likely correlated with popular culture, and what scary movies they have seen along with trends.

I think the existance of ETI's is possible however... I think the existance of God to be infinitely more plausible.
 
terpinator72 said:
I think its bogus...

Its similar to childhood fears, but only when adults grow up their fears are more likely correlated with popular culture, and what scary movies they have seen along with trends.

I think the existance of ETI's is possible however... I think the existance of God to be infinitely more plausible.

That's interesting Terpinator, considering there have been probably over a million UFO/ETI stories, and thousands of UFO/ETI coverup stories, yet you still think it's fiction.. lol

I believe in God, outside of the UFO/ETI phenom. :)
 
god, eti, etc...

all on faith.

cannot do anything with it except make bad movies and waste your life. oh well...
 
But "contact" doesn't necessarily mean "upfront" or "inyourface", you know.

As Holmes would say, "Mark my words, Watson, the universe works in mysterious ways."
 
Theres plenty of UFO's around but i dont jump to the conclusion that because we havnt worked out what it is yet it must be ETI, theres lots of things they could be and its very hard to find good evidence that they are ET in origin, i also see little reason why anyone would want to visit us, its not like we are special or have anything to offer. Im fairly confident they are out there somewhere though.
 
btimsah said:
That's interesting Terpinator, considering there have been probably over a million UFO/ETI stories, and thousands of UFO/ETI coverup stories, yet you still think it's fiction.. lol
Wow, over a million stories and still not one piece of solid evidence. Don't you think thats a bit strange?
 
shaman_ said:
Wow, over a million stories and still not one piece of solid evidence. Don't you think thats a bit strange?

tell you what I feel is strange and ironic; that you call yourself 'shaman_' and yet seem to be one of the resident 'sceptics'......?
 
duendy said:
tell you what I feel is strange and ironic; that you call yourself 'shaman_' and yet seem to be one of the resident 'sceptics'......?
As ironic as you using ad hominem after complaining about it in the other thread? ;)

It's just a net name I have used for many years. I wasn't always a sceptic. In my teens I was a believer and one of my interests was shamanistic beliefs.
duendy said:
others here seem to be stikin to 'earth lights' as THE explanation for ALL of the reported phemena
Similar to btimsah's comment in another thread that was also wrong. No one has said that earth lights explains all ufo sightings.
 
shaman_ said:
As ironic as you using ad hominem after complaining about it in the other thread? ;)

It's just a net name I have used for many years. I wasn't always a sceptic. In my teens I was a believer and one of my interests was shamanistic beliefs.

d__what was THe event(s) that changed you to sceptic?

Similar to btimsah's comment in another thread that was also wrong. No one has said that earth lights explains all ufo sightings.

so, what ELSE are they then, do yu think? That's what this thread's all about
 
duendy makes a fairly good point - mysterious appearances come and go and their explanations go by what's fashionable - nowaday's it's ET. But the skeptical side's explanations also tend to follow particular trends (piezo-electric effect; ball lightning; sleep paralysis), and it is up to skeptics to watch out for the pitfalls of quoting what you've heard other people say. You have to examine each story on its own merits, and since all the stories rely entirely on uncoroborrated witness testimony or blurry photographs you just can't say that it's automatically something for which there is no solid proof (multiplied entities) like Aliens. Actually finding an explanation for each experience is not necessary, but explaining the vast majority of them in a reasonable fashion is essential, I think.

I've been very disappointed with TV programmes which attempt to debunk various pseudo-scientific beliefs and yet do so with insufficient rigour or persuasiveness. I just saw the first episode of Proof Positive with Amanda Tapping and their debunking of "rods" (strange apparently rod-like insect-like creatures unknown to science which only appear on video footage). Well, the debunking consisted of a supposed expert saying that they were insects who appeared elongated because a video camera takes two shots for each frame and the insect has moved between frames. All this is true, but how were the uninitiated supposed to tell if this guy knew what he was talking about? An unambiguous demonstration would be to shoot an area with insects simultaneously with a high speed shutter film camera and a video camera, to demonstrate unambiguously that what looked like a rod in the video camera was in fact an insect.

The other day there was a programme called Real Flying Saucers which talked about various actual secret craft that had been seen as UFOs including the famous AVRO saucer. Towards the end of the programme they talked about a sighting, with photographs, of a number of UFOs. "But one man had a quite different explanation". But this guy hadn't actually been working with the UFOs in question, he had merely apparently invented a electromagnetic hovering system which had not gotten anywhere due to lack of funding, and he was claiming that what the people had thought were UFOs were in fact these real life electro hoverers, a development of his original idea (though he wasn't involved with it). Well, I'm afraid he sounded just as nuts as the people who thought aliens were invading, and it was not a very satisfactory explanation for the UFO photographs.
 
btimsah said:
That's interesting Terpinator, considering there have been probably over a million UFO/ETI stories, and thousands of UFO/ETI coverup stories, yet you still think it's fiction.. lol

I believe in God, outside of the UFO/ETI phenom. :)

And not one solid single piece of evidence to support anything.....
There were thousands if not hundreds of thousands of condemned "Witches" in early America... On your reasoning, then, there must have been a hell of a lot of witches floating around in early america, that now just cease to exist...

They only come back on halloween and tell bad jokes and receive candy.

:D
 
terpinator72 said:
And not one solid single piece of evidence to support anything.....
There were thousands if not hundreds of thousands of condemned "Witches" in early America... On your reasoning, then, there must have been a hell of a lot of witches floating around in early america, that now just cease to exist...

They only come back on halloween and tell bad jokes and receive candy.

:D

you see, this 'no solid evidence' becomes your mantra, and you end up beliving it yourself. and ironically not being able to support that assertion yourself

i can just as much turn round to you and claim that that sureity is as anecdotal as you accuse us ones who keep openminded about this stuff

for example, what about radiation parchment in ground where a UFO is supposed to have landed....about radiation burns on people who've had close contact....for starters
 
"for example, what about radiation parchment in ground where a UFO is supposed to have landed....about radiation burns on people who've had close contact....for starters"

Neither of which are claims that have any verification beyond anecdotal claim. People readily say there are radiation burns and radioactive residue, but show me a citation of the journal articles that these have appeared in or the medical records of people that experienced them.
 
SkinWalker said:
"for example, what about radiation parchment in ground where a UFO is supposed to have landed....about radiation burns on people who've had close contact....for starters"

Neither of which are claims that have any verification beyond anecdotal claim. People readily say there are radiation burns and radioactive residue, but show me a citation of the journal articles that these have appeared in or the medical records of people that experienced them.

a few questions so we can get clear with each other:

are you a professional debunker of UFO reports, etc?

Is so, have you investigated EVERY case worldwide?

Do you mean that radiation wasn't found with people who had reported being radiated due to unexplained contact, OR do you mean radiation sickness wasn't CONNECTEd with reported phenomena?

and off the top of my head. do you feel that such documentation would be aloowed by the authorities to become public knowledge?

Is it true that there exist top secret info regarding unexplianable phenomena?
 
duendy said:
d__what was THe event(s) that changed you to sceptic?
Basically I would put it down to open-minded, objective research. The more I read, the more problems I noticed with the popular paranormal subjects. I also notcied the similarities to religious beliefs.

One of the first things I learnt, that is relevant to this thread, is just how unreliable witness testimony is as evidence. I remember reading a story where some guys made fake monster footprints just out of their town. They got noticed and the whole town was talking about it. Pretty soon there were sightings of the 'monster'!! No this story is not evidence of anything but it is believable and I'm sure people who make crop circles have similar experiences.

Anyway it has been shown time and time again that witness testimony is not reliable. There are thousands of witness accounts of the Loch Ness monster. Should I accept that as well?

If there are that many witnesses why can't just one get some decent footage? Everyone has video cameras nowadays...

There were more aspects that changed my mind but I will leave it at that for the moment.
duendy said:
so, what ELSE are they then, do yu think? That's what this thread's all about
UFOs are unidentified ;) We see things in the sky all the time that we don't know what it is. We have for a very long time. The current popular culture causes us to think it is a grey alien. Maybe in a few hundred years we will call it a time traveller or interdimensional traveller. Who knows. We may have been visited by then.

But its not just people misunderstanding what they see. There are hoaxes, liars, attention seekers, people with mental disabilities ect to cloud the issue. This is then made worse by the paranormal investigators and media that get involved who are not the least bit objective.
 
duendy said:
are you a professional debunker of UFO reports, etc?

No.

duendy said:
Is so, have you investigated EVERY case worldwide?

N/A

duendy said:
Do you mean that radiation wasn't found with people who had reported being radiated due to unexplained contact, OR do you mean radiation sickness wasn't CONNECTEd with reported phenomena?

I implied neither. I asked where the physical evidence of these claims and anecdotes of radiation effects was.

duendy said:
and off the top of my head. do you feel that such documentation would be aloowed by the authorities to become public knowledge?

Why wouldn't it? And what "authorities?" Either the effects were duly noted and documented appropriately or they weren't. If the anecdotes of these effects exist, why wouldn't the evidence to support it?

In addition, government conspiracy is the argument that is frequently brought up when availability of evidence is questioned. This is the same circular type argument used in any paranormal/religious belief. Often, I've heard religious believers cite their faith in a deity or "god willed it" as the basis of their belief. I've also heard believers in poppycock like remote viewing cite the "negative energy" of skeptics as reason why they couldn't demonstrate in their presence.

UFO evidence does't exist because the government has a lid on it? That's baloney. They couldn't even keep the lid on Abu Graib, Iran-Contra, or Watergate.

duendy said:
Is it true that there exist top secret info regarding unexplianable phenomena?

Doubtful. If there is, it is only as it pertains to very explainable events, people and places. For instance, a report on an inquiry about UFOs between the United States and another nation might still be held as secret, but the reason isn't because of the reality of alien spacecraft. The reason is because the nation in question (or the U.S.) doesn't want its diplomatic ties to be known for political reasons.
 
SkinWalker said:
No.

right. so your an amateur



N/A

not sure what 'N/A' means



I implied neither. I asked where the physical evidence of these claims and anecdotes of radiation effects was.

not clear what you mean here. What i am asking is how can you be a sure a Brazillian farmer who confessed to contact and getting radiation burns can be debunked by you if you haven't examined the evidence. how do y0u KNOW?
i saw him give the report. he seemed down to earth enough, and real.

Why wouldn't it? And what "authorities?" Either the effects were duly noted and documented appropriately or they weren't. If the anecdotes of these effects exist, why wouldn't the evidence to support it?

Look. chck out about Edward Bernays. it might seem like off topic but i dont think so. the story of Edward Bernays, the father of spin shows us that we most definately are not told the truth, about ANYthing. so why should we be about a phemomenon that might confound the powers that be. try and put your head into those dominating people. for example, the military see us as 'civvies'

In addition, government conspiracy is the argument that is frequently brought up when availability of evidence is questioned. This is the same circular type argument used in any paranormal/religious belief. Often, I've heard religious believers cite their faith in a deity or "god willed it" as the basis of their belief. I've also heard believers in poppycock like remote viewing cite the "negative energy" of skeptics as reason why they couldn't demonstrate in their presence.

Theres a lot to go on there.....what you have to understand is this. to have a more generalist approach to all this. understand that the authrorities desire mind conTROL. be under no confusion. they do not want us taking drugs they dont want us to take that might give us 'strange' ideas, yet push drugs that fit in with their criteria. that keep one on their conveyor-belt of conformity. the church did/do same, saying that any experiences not sanctioned by the church was from the 'devil'

UFO evidence does't exist because the government has a lid on it? That's baloney. They couldn't even keep the lid on Abu Graib, Iran-Contra, or Watergate.

I agree. they are inept bastards. but that don't mean they dont keep secrets, like any elite does. look to the small man to see the big. look at cliques and their secrets from outsiders and how they scapegoat......same old

Doubtful. If there is, it is only as it pertains to very explainable events, people and places. For instance, a report on an inquiry about UFOs between the United States and another nation might still be held as secret, but the reason isn't because of the reality of alien spacecraft. The reason is because the nation in question (or the U.S.) doesn't want its diplomatic ties to be known for political reasons.

maybe thats only half the truth.....as you yourself confess. you aren't even a professional debunker. maybe your missin shit. not that a pro wouldn't though neither
 
duendy said:
maybe thats only half the truth.....as you yourself confess. you aren't even a professional debunker. maybe your missin shit. not that a pro wouldn't though neither

Sorry... I was unclear. What I meant by "no" was that I'm not a debunker.

But If I've missed anything, like the physical or epigraphical evidence about alleged radiation effects, fill us in.

By the way... I'm assuming you replied within my quote, since my quote is far larger than it originally was, but I generally don't bother reading your quotes... it's too much trouble for so little you typically say. If it's relevant, repost or edit your post to fix your quotes.
 
SkinWalker said:
Sorry... I was unclear. What I meant by "no" was that I'm not a debunker.

But If I've missed anything, like the physical or epigraphical evidence about alleged radiation effects, fill us in.

DUENDY(((((((....(this clear enuf fo ya?)
But what EVIDENCE aRE YOU offering to show that YOU are right? if you are coming froma serious scientific approach, offer some substantial reports that claim that ALL radiation effects coming from supposed contacts between UFOs and earth and humans is false.

By the way... I'm assuming you replied within my quote, since my quote is far larger than it originally was, but I generally don't bother reading your quotes... it's too much trouble for so little you typically say.

DUENDY(((haha. bich! and what BIG are YOU saying. what i am hearing is...anecdotal!

If it's relevant, repost or edit your post to fix your quotes.

Everything i say is relevant, if you dont grokk it means a fialure on YOUR part, not mine
 
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