What about the MEN.???

[cluelusshusbund]

To help keep off-topic stuff out of threds wit difenent subjects... this thred is a catch-all for stories or information about how innocent men are the over looked victims when so many women are now tellin sesual harrassment stories about ther bosses... an tips for men on how not to get caut up in one of these scandals.!!!

I thank this is important cause hell... what man can decipher all the mixed messages women send.!!!

O... an this thred is also open to fair-minded women if they thank they can help.!!!

Common sinse advice often overlooked:::

For example... if you'r a boss an a female employee dont seem to like you... be careful not to be overly sesual toward her.!!!

If at all posible... do it you'rself or at least be involved wit the interviews of prospective women employees to try an weed out the ones who look like feminist trouble makers.!!!

 

[birch]

what man can decipher all the mixed messages women send.

this is the problem. you can't make statements like this without backing this up with examples, otherwise it's akin to lies.

what mixed messages and how does this occur? without these, it shows one actually is speaking from zero experience or assuming there are mixed messages.

if someone is genuinely harassed, they will delineate the series of events and the reasons why it is harassment.

when i was harassed, i was not sending any messages whatsoever, except just interacting as one human being to another or not at all. in other words, there were no mixed messages. i've found men who harass are opportunistic and make unrealistic and inappropriate overtures, that are either totally out of place or the if not well-recieved or unwanted by the other party is ignored.

it is often so illogical, that i've even actually discuss it with someone after to try and understand what prompted the person (in their mind) to even do so. for instance, when i was renting that room in baltimore, that new man that moved in just started banging on my door, literally, not a normal knocking but an incessant banging because he knew i was in my room. even that is harassment at getgo. then immediately after meeting me he just pummels me with personal questions and comes onto me and it just went from there. i was disgusted with this person from the beginning and tried to avoid or skirt him as much as possible. what goddamn mixed signals? i wasn't even friendly, i never asked him personal questions etc. he never paid attention because he didn't CARE!! that's the point!! harassers do not CARE what is going on with the other person!!

the main reason why harassment is usually unexcusable more often for the harasser/accused is because it is often not a one-time event. it is a continual offense that violates anothers personal space or pushing oneself onto them as in continually seeking personal relationship when it's been made known from the first that it's unwelcome.

 

[Daecon]

Obviously there's a disparity between what men consider to be signals, and what women intend to be signals.

 

[river]

To help keep off-topic stuff out of threds wit difenent subjects... this thred is a catch-all for stories or information about how innocent men are the over looked victims when so many women are now tellin sesual harrassment stories about ther bosses... an tips for men on how not to get caut up in one of these scandals.!!!

I thank this is important cause hell... what man can decipher all the mixed messages women send.!!!

O... an this thred is also open to fair-minded women if they thank they can help.!!!

Common sinse advice often overlooked:::

For example... if you'r a boss an a female employee dont seem to like you... be careful not to be overly sesual toward her.!!!

If at all posible... do it you'rself or at least be involved wit the interviews of prospective women employees to try an weed out the ones who look like feminist trouble makers.!!!

Why not just come out and say I'm interested in you , lets just hang out together . You know , heah I'm doing this or going there , care to join me ...?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Ok birch you'r right... an its a ego insecurity thang i guess... but i now admit that the mixed-message excuse is a crock of sht.!!!
I mean... truth be told... who but sombody raized by walnuts woudnt know when ther sesually harrassin someone... an this applies to the young an old.!!!

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Why not just come out and say I'm interested in you , lets just hang out together . You know , heah I'm doing this or going there , care to join me ...?

Its more than just what you say... it has to be appropriate for the situaton.!!!

 

[river]

Its more than just what you say... it has to be appropriate for the situaton.!!!

Of course , freedom to chose .

 

[Seattle]

What a train wreck.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

One mans train wreck is anuther mans spectacle to gawk at

 

[Bells]

Obviously there's a disparity between what men consider to be signals, and what women intend to be signals.

A woman walking down a street alone, looking straight ahead in the direction she is going, perhaps she will look at some shop windows as she walks past, perhaps she's on her phone or listening to music... And she is sexually harassed by a guy she walks past. She hadn't looked at him, spoken to him or even acknowledged his existence. What signal do you think she's sending?

A woman goes to work, sits at her desk, says hi to her male coworker and he starts telling her about how good she is in bed and then 'how 'bout it?' while staring at her boobs. What signal did she send? Was it the "hi"? Perhaps she smiled at him as part of her greeting?

A woman goes out to a nightclub with friends, and a guy asks her out. She says no thanks for whatever reason. He keeps pushing, follows her around, comments on her body and her looks. What signal did she send?

A woman goes out on a date with a guy, say a first date, and he stops the car outside her house as he's dropping her off and he grabs hold of her, starts forcefully kissing her and then forces her face down to his crotch. What signal did she send? Going out on the date with him? Being nice to him on their date, perhaps?

And that's the thing, men who behave this way think that these women have sent them a "signal". The reality is that women are trying to go about their day, and these men decide to foist themselves onto these women, in an unwanted way and without provocation. It's not about signal. It's about respect, or lack there of.

I mean, my mother was sexually harassed once while walking down the street when she came and met me for lunch when I was at work. She was a woman in her late 60's at the time, dressed in jeans and a loose shirt and her runners. She was walking back to the train station and she was verbally sexually harassed and she felt so uncomfortable and then afraid for her safety that she refused to ever come and meet me for lunch again unless my father dropped her off and came and picked her back up. She has refused to walk through the city by herself again after that. And I cannot blame her. It's not about signals. It's about men who do this who just think that women are objects, not human beings deserving of respect.

 

[birch]

Obviously there's a disparity between what men consider to be signals, and what women intend to be signals.

and you like the rest here, can't specify or even use an example of a scenario. how interesting.

from what i've experienced, since sexual harassers are sexist, the only signal they need is for you to acknowledge them at all or just be in their physical vicinity. that's simple opportunism. so a female interacting with a male even for business or platonic is construed as interest period (really it's just opportunism) and even if she is not interested or even interacting, it's still construed as okay to harass.

what are these signals? oh, female, existing and not pointing a gun in your face? is that the signal she wants attention from you?

 

[Bowser]

I suppose my question would be, how does a woman express sexual interest in a man? Having been grabbed by the face and kissed, subjected to verbal sexual expression, and damn near raped on a first date, I would like to know how Bells and Birch express their sexuality.

Don't get me wrong, no one should be grabbing your ass, but how do women cross that threshold?

 

[Bells]

I suppose my question would be, how does a woman express sexual interest in a man? Having been grabbed by the face and kissed, subjected to verbal sexual expression, and damn near raped on a first date, I would like to know how Bells and Birch express their sexuality.

Don't get me wrong, no one should be grabbing your ass, but how do women cross that threshold?

I use words. I tell him that I would really like to get to know him better, for example or he tells me and we go from there. In other words, consent.

That does not involve grabbing him and mashing my mouth into his while humping his leg as a sign that I am into him, nor does it involve screaming across a crowded room "oi, give us a kiss" or words to that effect. Having had a guy do that to me at a busy bar on a first date (the forced kiss and trying to hump my leg as I struggled to push him off), it isn't pleasant, it's terrifying and it's creepy and sleazy and I ended up hiding with the bouncer at the bar we were at after he was thrown out when said bouncer saw me struggling to push him off me, and called a friend to come and pick me up as I was afraid to walk out to call a cab to get home that night, in case he was lurking nearby.

And there is a distinct difference between expressing sexual interest in a man and expressing one's sexuality (however one does that.....?)..

 

[birch]

I suppose my question would be, how does a woman express sexual interest in a man? Having been grabbed by the face and kissed, subjected to verbal sexual expression, and damn near raped on a first date, I would like to know how Bells and Birch express their sexuality.

Don't get me wrong, no one should be grabbing your ass, but how do women cross that threshold?

i thought this was common sense. well, you usually meet someone first and exchange names and normal pleasantries, then start having an impersonal and platonic conversation and if that goes well and you start liking someone, then you and the other may make plans to hang out in some way such as to go for coffee, lunch etc and then it just goes from there or doesn't depending on whether both people 'mutually' click or not.

notice there is nothing physical or sexual connotation or insinuations going on initially and there is nothing pushy either. it's both people reading eachother's comfort level with eachother. and if one or both don't feel comfortable or uninterested, that's a no-go

 

[Bowser]

I use words. I tell him that I would really like to get to know him better, for example or he tells me and we go from there. In other words, consent.

In other words, expression of sexual interest. Don't get me wrong, I understand that some can be true pigs, but we're reaching a point where men won't want to talk to a woman, much less show any sexual interest, out of fear of harassment.

We are all sexual creatures, men and women. I know from experience that women can be sexually bold too, when they are interested in a man. I just don't believe it's a human impulse that can easily be cultured.

But I make no excuses for the crude. There is a line between being interested and being an animal.

 

[Bowser]

i thought this was common sense. well, you usually meet someone first and exchange names and normal pleasantries, then start having an impersonal and platonic conversation and if that goes well and you start liking someone, then you and the other may make plans to hang out in some way such as to go for coffee, lunch etc and then it just goes from there or doesn't depending on whether both people 'mutually' click or not.

The other night while at the bar, it took less than an hour for a woman to take an interest in me, and I was just being nice to her. I'm not even that attractive. The point is, there are few guidelines in such matters.

And no. I'm married so I didn't "Hook up" with that woman at the bar.

 

[birch]

The point is, there are few guidelines in such matters.

completely erroneous. there are no set guidelines on how two people decide to get together.

however, harassment is another issue entirely and is not a mistake. when someone is not interested and you 'keep' on pursuing them or worse, try to make physical contact, that's harassment.

 

[Bells]

In other words, expression of sexual interest.

Nope. It's an expression of having met an interesting person and wanting to get to know them better.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that some can be true pigs, but we're reaching a point where men won't want to talk to a woman, much less show any sexual interest, out of fear of harassment.

There's showing an interest in a woman and then there's dropping a "I want to see your mouth on me" into the conversation out of nowhere just to glean her reaction.

You get what I'm saying here? It's about respecting her as a human being. Think of it this way. How would you like a man to speak to your mother or your daughter and go from there.

We are all sexual creatures, men and women. I know from experience that women can be sexually bold too, when they are interested in a man. I just don't believe it's a human impulse that can easily be cultured.

Yep and some women also sexually harass men. The point is respecting the other person as a human being first and foremost.

How is this so hard to fathom that it requires constant explanations?

But I make no excuses for the crude. There is a line between being interested and being an animal.

Sexual harassment is not always crude.

 

[iceaura]

this is the problem. you can't make statements like this without backing this up with examples, otherwise it's akin to lies.

He's sending it up, a bit.

Easy to misread, though, if you aren't familiar with the guy.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

when someone is not interested and you 'keep' on pursuing them or worse, try to make physical contact, that's harassment.

I ant buyin it... when people say ther confused about what harrassment is... or confused about the "signals"... ther lyin... full stop.!!!