Were we visited before?

[machiaventa]

Friends:
After reading the book titled"Fingerprints of the Gods", it caused me to seriously wonder if we have been visited by extra terrestrial being in the past.
The level of technology required build some of sites which are discussed in the book, supposedly did not exist.It is obvious that a high level of understanding concerning the stars and their movements was present.To build Machu Pichu even even with todays technology is all but impossible.How did they make the nazca pictographs and lines without being airborne?
The best question is how did all those ancient maps showing Antartica shore line without the ice, before it was even discovered come about. I believe that we were either visited or there have been civilizations here before us which surpass or equal our level of sophistication.Anybody with any more insights please let me know them.

machiaventa

 

[Stryder]

Why do the types that think "interaction with our past occured", always think "they were aliens"?

What if humanity gets to the point of being able to manipulate time, and they decide to interfer with themselves and anything that seems alien is "Made to look-so".

You might question why would someone make something look alien, but there are two reasons:
1: Generally Hoaxers will always be with us, and hoaxers will know if they could manipulate time to this degree, they could make large amounts of money manipulating religions to their benefits.

2: "The Grandfather Paradox", a parody where a person interfers with a time point prior to their existance. Alot of people might theorise that they can mess around with the timeline because "the universe they exist in is obviously a different one than the one they mess with", what they tend to neglect is they are still "killing themselves, and others" in a different universe. Perhaps they should get locked up for it (or to some just the lunacy of thinking they can do that).

However if a cleverly orchestrated method of delivering information from the future to the past was created, then obviously the medium chosen would be that of lies. Lieing about who they are, or what they are so as not to cause potential repurcussions with changes to their own time window.

For instance generating a craft could be possible, but you wouldn't label it in English either NASA timeprobe or a particular country, as do you know what that would cause to the global state of affairs?

Instead you would generate some bogus Lexicons, and make the craft and internal gear look as aesthetically "alien" as possible.

I'm not saying of course that any of what I mentioned is possible, but it's just something that you have to look at as an alterative.

 

[VRob]

Stryderunknown,

I don't think he was assuming anything.

 

[machiaventa]

Friend:
There will always be hoaxers, wether they be from our time or another. My question is could other civilizations have existed? The site know as Mach Pichu was not built by the Incas, although they did use it. Modern dating methods put it's contruction time at around 15,000 B.C.E. I am sure there are many who would debate this, however this no way the Incas built this site, and currently there is no way we could do it now.
Ancient myths and stories tell of the stones being moved by the sound of trumpets aimed at the particular stone to moved.Tiahuanaco has the same legends about it's contruction also.It also dates to about 15,000 B.C.E. To me this presents information which leads to the conclusion that there must have been some type of civilization capable of doing this. They could been alien, but I doubt it. they were probably advanced as us in some areas and much more in other areas. Being that something caused their demise, or they went back to where they lived.Leaving the local talent to carry on. Obviously if this were the case, man has a way of perverting scientific knowledge into some sort of religious dogma.When this happens civilization tends to go two steps backward then one foward in direction that has been contaminated by beliefs in superstions, multiple Gods, and a reversion to pre-existing beliefs from long befor the civilization reached it's pinnacle.

Machiaventa

 

[thed]

Friends:
After reading the book titled"Fingerprints of the Gods", it caused me to seriously wonder if we have been visited by extra terrestrial being in the past.

There's a reason Hancock appears here on crank.net

The level of technology required build some of sites which are discussed in the book, supposedly did not exist.

Our ancestors where very innovative, where they not. Hancock does a disservice to the level of ingenuity of the human species, IMO. Almost as bas as Von Daniken.

It is obvious that a high level of understanding concerning the stars and their movements was present.

That they did. If I had tens of years of non-light polluted skies to watch and a few hundred generations of previous observations to go on, I would like to think I could do as well.

To build Machu Pichu even even with todays technology is all but impossible.How did they make the nazca pictographs and lines without being airborne?

Draw them and scale them up perhaps.

The best question is how did all those ancient maps showing Antartica shore line without the ice, before it was even discovered come about.

That I can't answer but I believe it has been debunked.

I believe that we were either visited or there have been civilizations here before us which surpass or equal our level of sophistication.Anybody with any more insights please let me know them.

machiaventa

Funny that these highly advanced or alien races use local materials with clear evidence of masonry on them. If I was an alien wishing to build an airport at Machu Pichu I'd use neutronium or unobtanium. There would be clear evidence of alien artefacts and not just pictograms open to interpretation.

 

[BigBlueHead]

Machi said:

Ancient myths and stories tell of the stones being moved by the sound of trumpets aimed at the particular stone to moved.

Ancient myths may be speaking metaphorically. How were these myths recorded?

 

[guthrie]

15,000 BC for machu Pichu? I hadnt heard that one before. the vidence for alien visits in the past is debateable in many ways. Which sites is Hancock talking about?

 

[SkinWalker]

And this is the reason why I have written to Borders Books and Music to inform them that they have the books of Graham Hancock in the wrong section. I find them under Anthropology/Archaeology in nearly ever Borders I visit.

Hancock's fiction belongs in the New Age section. He is the epitome of pseudoscience.

Case in point is the mention by the above poster about Antarctica.

Hancock says:

"The best recent evidence suggests that Queen Maud Land and the neighbouring regions shown on the map, passed through a long ice-free period which may not have come completely to an end until about six thousand years ago."

Hancock's "best recent evidence" is the Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings by C.H. Hapgood and published in 1966.

Hapsgood has long since been refuted (McIntosh, 2000) and one need only refer to actual recent explorations of the region to see that the ice is tens or hundreds of thousands of years old. In fact, recent core samples of Queen Maud Land shows the ice to be 750,000 years bp (Poker, 2003).

This is a typical tactic of Hancock and pseudoscientists in general. Offer a plausible reference to which the average reader must track down to verify. He doesn't explain his citations fully, takes them out of context, or simply uses previously disproven citations of hypotheses because they fit his own contention.

The average reader that has an interest in subjects of Archaeology goes to one of the more trusted bookstores and asks, "where's the Archaeology section?" Upon arriving there, books of various authors are found, but few in a store like Borders will be anything that they don't feel are marketable. Fingerprints of the Gods and extraordinary tales like it are always going to be marketable because people want to read the fantastic!

As far as Michu Picchu goes, current evidence suggests that the complex was built by the Inca emperor Pachacuti in the mid-15th century. It is not from 15,000 BCE! In spite of what Hancock would have you believe.

McIntosh, Gregory (2000). The Piri Reis Map of 1513. The University of Georgia Press, ISBN 0-8203-2157-5 (cl.).

Poker, M. (September 2003) Oldest ever ice core is a ticket to prehistory(link is to abstract only). New Scientist, 179(2411), p.20- 21

 

[craterchains (Norval]

Those big dates of scientists do impress some don’t they?
Stick to the evidence that isn’t easily explained away, and the real story unfolds.
But if ETI have visited us, and or are visiting us, I ask WHY!?
Even that answer is available and is thousands of years old.
Some just wont accept ETI till they see crater chains on earth, and ships over our cities.

 

[SkinWalker]

Those big dates of scientists do impress some don?t they?

Only those that lack the intelligence or education to understand their significance or how they are arrived at.

Stick to the evidence that isn?t easily explained away, and the real story unfolds.

From what I've seen of your pseudoscience/conspiracy dribble, I don't think you will recognize "evidence" if it dropped out of the sky and fell in your lap.

 

[dagr8n8]

this is really intresting, what about the prymids , i have herd that thye also were built by alians they are only about 1/60th of a degree off faceing prefectly east west north south.adn the rocks used came from extreamly far away and are like 15 tuns each i think im not sure

 

[SkinWalker]

dagr8n8, the pyramids of Egypt, along with much of Egyptology, is very fascinating. But don't go just by what you hear. Research it. Ask questions. Don't just settle for fantastic explanation because it is fantastic.

Here's a good question to ask:
Is that alignment to the magnetic directions? Perfectly East today was not the same as "perfectly East" during the fourth dynasty (around 2500 years ago).

Also, keep in mind that, although technology has given modern civilizations many advantages, the people that existed several thousand years ago were every bit as intelligent as those that exist today. They had the ability, motivation, and time to build many wonderous things and deserve credit for their accomplishments. Hell, the human race deserves the credit for the accomplishments we've made! Don't be so quick to assign them to aliens that have no artifactual or epigraphical evidence to support their existence.

There is a preponderance of evidence that suggests that the pyramids were manmade between 2500 - 3000 BCE.

I suggest:
Ehrich, Robert (1992) Chronologies in Old World Archaeology. University Press of Chicago

Petrie, W.M. Flinders (2000) The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh Kegan Paul.

Wilkinson, Toby A.H. (1999) Early Dynastic Egypt Routledge

If you check no other link above, be sure to check the middle one. Its a real gem.

 

[2inquisitive]

SkinWalker, I am sure you are aware the alignment of the pyramids is to
true north, not magnetic north. The Egyptians were accomplished astronomers.
Her is an article published in Nature that estimated the age of the Great Pyramid
at about 4500 years. The age of the pyramids is still contested, according to
which branch of science you follow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1024779.stm

 

[VRob]

dagr8n8, the pyramids of Egypt, along with much of Egyptology, is very fascinating. But don't go just by what you hear. Research it. Ask questions. Don't just settle for fantastic explanation because it is fantastic.

I would also ask you to follow your own advice.

Just because one theory is accepted as fact, doesn't make it so. IMO, The origins of the Pyramids(ect.) are still very debatable.

Has anyone else been puzzled by the fact that there seems to be pyramid structures in so many of our Ancient cultures?

 

[phlogistician]

I.

Has anyone else been puzzled by the fact that there seems to be pyramid structures in so many of our Ancient cultures?

It's not that puzzling, I think what we have to accept is that humans were far more mobile far earlier than we'd previously thought, and that many of the discoverers we think 'found' the Americas, etc, were treading over old ground. After all, it's now established that Vikings found their way to the Americas, well before Columbus. So maybe there were even earlier adventurers?

As mummies have supposedly been found to show traces of nicotine and cocaine (although I understand this is fairly controversial) and these substances come from South American fauna, where they also have Ziggurats, and make mummies of sorts, one wonders if Egypt imported drugs, cultire, and architecture? That would just imply a trade route, but such widespread travelling would also explain the alignments of structures in Cambodia, as the architect was obviously keen astronomer.

 

[TredLightly]

People must also remember that the "pyramid" design is one of the strongest and most stable architectural forms known. This is not some futuristic knowledge found to be out of place in the past. When ancient civilizations sought to build large and grander structures, they went with established scientific knowledge and what worked best...

 

[craterchains (Norval]

Paleo SETI research gets most scientists fired from their jobs when discovered by their employers. Their reputations are lost along with the paycheck. When one seriously studies ancient documents, paintings, and so on there is a great mound of evidence that is not easily explained away. If just half of these so called de-bunkers did their job on the evidence and not on the person we would be far more advanced in our understanding of the facts.

 

[thed]

If just half of these so called de-bunkers did their job on the evidence and not on the person we would be far more advanced in our understanding of the facts.

Would it surprise you that we probably have examined the evidence and the evidence against.

That is why we laugh at you.

Von Daniken, Sitchen, Bauval, Hoagland, Velikovsky, Lazar et al are simply scamming the public. Deal with it

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Friends:
After reading the book titled"Fingerprints of the Gods", it caused me to seriously wonder if we have been visited by extra terrestrial being in the past.
The level of technology required build some of sites which are discussed in the book, supposedly did not exist.It is obvious that a high level of understanding concerning the stars and their movements was present.To build Machu Pichu even even with todays technology is all but impossible.How did they make the nazca pictographs and lines without being airborne?
The best question is how did all those ancient maps showing Antartica shore line without the ice, before it was even discovered come about. I believe that we were either visited or there have been civilizations here before us which surpass or equal our level of sophistication.Anybody with any more insights please let me know them.

machiaventa

----------
M*W: machiaventa, I agree with you (but don't tell ConsequentAtheist because he doesn't understand any of this)! I ask these questions: How else could we have evolved beyond apes? It would seem that we should still be in apelike form instead of the intelligent beings that we are. Where did the Neanderthals go? Why did they die out? We didn't descend from them, but we branched off before them, and we should still be apes, but we're not. Did they interbreed with a higher being? I think so. When did we realize we were naked? I don't believe that was from modesty or anything. I believe we became intelligent enough to make clothes to keep us warm from the cold. Where did intelligent life come from? I tend to believe they weren't already here but genetically compatible with the apes. Although I'm not religious, I believe there could be some legendary truths in Genesis (i.e. "sons of gods, daughters of men," etc.). I believe the order of the Torah is incorrect. I believe the story of the great deluge took place before the story of Adam and Eve. But all those Bible stories were plagarized from the earlier Sumerian stories of the great deluge.

The Nazca Lines: Why were they carved so big into the rock that they could only be seen from miles up? I don't think apes did this. There had to be some intelligent life that carved these images into the rock plain.

Something interesting was announced today. The view to Mars was lost. (Yeah, right!). Remember a few years back when the Hubble was sent up? Then all of a sudden it was "broken." I don't believe it was broken. I believe they saw something they couldn't explain and shut it off. In reality, it may not be anything significant, but it might LOOK significant.

The pyramids: You know, I don't believe the story that the pyramids were created by the hard labor of slaves. I believe they were made by an intelligent race with the use of precise technology and possibly anti-gravity. The other thing I think is that perhaps at the time they were made Titans ruled the Earth. That wouldn't make it so hard to build the pyramids if a race of Titans built them. As far as their alignment, there's something to that. I just haven't gotten into it, but I think it has something to do with the skies, kind of like an observatory.

Humanity: Where did our intelligence come from? Did it just evolve along with the apes, or did an intelligent race interbreed with the apes. I believe the latter. Whomever or whatever gave us our intelligence, I believe it was from the specific breeding. Otherwise, why are there still great apes today? Perhaps we are looking at our distant future, but it appears to be our ancient past. There was a crossover (or maybe there will be a crossover) of time and space. You know, you can only go so far in the future that you crossover to the past (or the other way around). The universe is cyclic. Life is cyclic. It doesn't go on forever, it just comes back around.

 

[VRob]

It's not that puzzling, I think what we have to accept is that humans were far more mobile far earlier than we'd previously thought, and that many of the discoverers we think 'found' the Americas, etc, were treading over old ground. After all, it's now established that Vikings found their way to the Americas, well before Columbus. So maybe there were even earlier adventurers?

Well, It used to be taught as fact that Columbus was the 1st to reach the America's.

Who's to say we won't find additional theories that are passed on as fact today, only to be proven false in the future?

Too much of our History is built upon theories. All it takes is one of these theories to be proven wrong to bring down the entire house.