We are Slaves

Enslaving someone is much easier if you just make sure you come up with a way to convince yourself that those you're enslaving are not like you. So, realistically, I'd probably buy lesser beings to do work for me just like most people given that world. We don't give any 2nd thought to enslaving machines, so we'd just have to learn to think of certain people as machines in order to enslave them.

Originally posted by ssivakami
Sure, the universe, is, in a sense, a slave to certain physical forces :)

Ah, but what are the physical forces slaves to?
 
imimim ...

Right to the point.

Unfortunately, too few are willing to take that choice.

Take care ;)

And, welcome to Sciforums.
 
Re: we are slave

Originally posted by imimim
if u have a choice to die then u are not slave
Originally posted by Chagur
Right to the point. Unfortunately, too few are willing to take that choice.
Almost... If you have the choice, you can still be a slave. Once you choose death, you are no longer.

Peace.
 
if u have a choice to die then u are not slave

imimim,

That is true. There are stories of South American natives who bit their own wrists rather than be enslaved by the Spanish. They were not slaves even to fear of death.

I respect that.
 
yes

yes, i agree with this thread, we are all slaves,

if u disagree, answer these to urself...

do u have the right to walk anywhere?

do u have the right to kill any1?

do u have the right to steal that car over the road?

do u have the right to do anything against someelses rights?

...you see where im getting.

<marquee>N.B. No-one is a virgin...life f**ks us all.</marquee>
 
Re: we are slave

Originally posted by imimim
if u have a choice to die then u are not slave

Ahh, some people are denied even this by their religion or laws of the land. They truly are slaves.
 
Originally posted by ssivakami
How do you know they are slaves to something ?!

If physical forces are something real, and they're not gods, there should be a justification for why they're as they are and how they came to be that way. The justification they lie on would be what they're slaves to. That’s if they're real and not just a logical contruct.

Of course, this is much like calling everything energy and then defining energy as that which has the ability to be everything (in the other thread). Physical forces are declared to be the basis of everything, but their description lies in observing the universe which is assumed to be the effect of some forces never actually found. So you might as well be saying everything is a slave to that which helps us describe how everything is.

What this means is that the physical forces aren't really anything... they're simply a compressed mathematically simpler observation of the nature of other things. They aren’t an actual existence, just a way of describing the things that do exist. So if they aren't anything themselves, they can't be enslavers any more than they can be slaves.
 
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Hoth,
If physical forces are something real, and they're not gods, there should be a justification for why they're as they are and how they came to be that way. The justification they lie on would be what they're slaves to. That’s if they're real and not just a logical contruct.
Define real. Define gods. You're assuming gods exist and are not real ? On what basis ? How do you know that ?

You're assuming everything has a cause and that we can understand all causes. How do you know this ? Where's the evidence for it ?

- Sivakami.
 
Real: something which has objective existence. Note that things which are just a description of something that has an objective existence are not, at least for my definition, real themselves.

The only reason I mentioned gods is that they're the easy escape route... my rough definition of a god would be as "the original real thing which is a cause but needs no cause itself." I don't assume that gods exist... I'm an atheist actually, so I assume gods don't exist.

I don't assume we can understand all causes... nor even that it's even theoretically possible to understand all causes, nor that absolutely everything has a cause. The study of physics, however, assumes that everything has a cause... so for the purposes of understanding how physics derives the idea of physical forces I must go along with that assumption.

It's like software engineering. The universe is treated as a function. We're given this huge complex function which seems to be doing lots of different things, and we want to understand the function better. The goal of physics is to reverse-engineer this function which we are all a part of. Physicists examine the logic of how the function works, and they derive from that a set of preconditions which they call "physical forces," or sometimes when they're thinking more clearly "physical laws." Remember, we're all inside the function, so we never actually see the preconditions and in fact the preconditions don't actually exist for us since they're not inside the function... we only know that what's going on in the function seems consistent with what a certain set of preconditions would produce. No physical force has any reality on its own, it must have something to act on just as a precondition must be run through the function in order for it to do anything. The preconditions (physical forces) are themselves nothing more than logical simplifications science has created in order to understand the function (universe) better.

It seems to me as though there can't be any actual real preconditions for the universe, because that would mean there's something outside of the universe and the definition of the universe would automatically expand to incorporate it... at which point science would have to develop preconditions for the now-real things that we used to call preconditions, and it'd go on like that forever. So, what's real is only the complex effects of the physical laws (i.e., all the interactions we observe between everything in the universe), not the physical forces we use to describe the effects and sometimes mistakenly think of as the cause. That's why there's no actual reality to the physical forces: they have descriptive value, and the whole point of them is to describe things other than themselves in a consistent manner, but they have no actual reality of their own.

What we call physical forces are simply laws of interaction. They're not really forces, just descriptive laws.

I hope that's clearer. :)
 
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