Was life on Earth created by an evil designer?

[Xelasnave.1947]

I'm talking nonsense you say?
Put this link in your pipe and smoke it...

Jan that is fascinating thank you for setting me straight... My views were formed from a tv show. Fancy can you imagine they put something on tv that left out important facts.
Thanks sincerely.
Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jan that is fascinating thank you for setting me straight... My views were formed from a tv show. Fancy can you imagine they put something on tv that left out important facts.
Thanks sincerely.
Alex

I'm pretty sure we saw the same show. But there was no doubt in my mind, having listened to him, that he wasn't a theist. That's the difference.

jan.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I have answers too.
The answers will reveal themselves when and if you tackle those questions. That way you realise the answer for yourself, rather than being told. A good indicator of denial is when that person openly evades the question, because they already know what the answer is, but choose to ignore it, and stay in their position.

jan.

Well I ask questions along the lines of why is there is religion, why do folk believe in God.

My answers dont lead me to the same place that you are at.

Just as you think I miss out I think you miss out.

Anyways I do not want to get involved what you wish to believe in is your affair if it helps you fit everything in a happy place that is wonderful.
On my side I can not believe there is a God with any sort of plan.
If we meet and he wants to punish me for any sin that is up to him but I would like to think he could respect me even though I am zip.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I'm pretty sure we saw the same show. But there was no doubt in my mind, having listened to him, that he wasn't a theist. That's the difference.

jan.

Well he certainly is not I would call a good Christian but as I have told you I have nkt met any who frankly live up to the standard I set for myself.
The folk I have met use the bible to cherry pick often out of context to suit themselves.
I have yet to personaly meet one who has read the bible.
I have and find it wanting.
I do follow many christian values I think.
But somehow it makes me happy to find Jones was not a true believer.

Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

Well I ask questions along the lines of why is there is religion, why do folk believe in God.

In a nutshell, religion is there for the benefit of the human being, to remember God, and his relationship to God. That is the underlying point.

My answers dont lead me to the same place that you are at.

You keep talking yourself out of comprehension, IMO.

Just as you think I miss out I think you miss out.

Miss out on what, exactly?

Anyways I do not want to get involved what you wish to believe in is your affair if it helps you fit everything in a happy place that is wonderful.

Classic example of talking yourself out of comprehension. Reduce my theism to some happy, drug-like, trip, to help me escape from reality.

On my side I can not believe there is a God with any sort of plan.

I get that. But why can't you?

If we meet and he wants to punish me for any sin that is up to him but I would like to think he could respect me even though I am zip.

We all sin, Alex, it's not just exclusive to atheists. Are all atheists like Jim Jones?
The terms don't mean anything. They are merely labels.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Well he certainly is not I would call a good Christian but as I have told you I have nkt met any who frankly live up to the standard I set for myself.
The folk I have met use the bible to cherry pick often out of context to suit themselves.

''Christian'' is a title. It was because he came across as a good Christian why so many people fell under his spell.

jan.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I get that. But why can't you?

I just think it is beyond belief, I think it is a tool used since year dot to control human behaviour.
I think it has been made up much like one would make up a fairey tale. And the people who profest to believe I find have poor morals and dont not practice what I interpret the bible suggests is decent.
I am not racist, sexist, criminal, vengeful, jealous, or sneaky I have not met achristian who comes close to my standards which really should be their standard.
I find itvery difficult to tolerate a hypocrite. I dont lie yet I see dishonesty in the religious folk I have met...
Still I see the good work churches do so I really try not to jugde everyone by those who I have met.
I cant put into words how I feel but I certainly dont think there is any reason or evidence or any sence in believing in a God.
Alex

 

[Heber]

[QUOTE="...

But then two questions really remain:

1. Why is God as the designer of life on Earth so evil? Why is God not capable of being a good designer?

2. If an evil deity really created (or designed) all life on Earth then who or what really created that deity?

...[/QUOTE]

I happened to see this conversation and decided to weigh in:

But first: The problem many have is that their understanding of "God" comes from the creedal world view (as I will call it). In the CWV, God created the universe out of nothing The far majority of churches that call themselves Christian accept this, as also Judahism and Islam. The power to create everything out of nothing is the essence of God to many. So I realize the tendency to balk at rejecting this idea is great. But consider: science has never been able to create anything out of nothing. And the Bible does not clearly teach that God has this power. So consider for a minute while you read ahead that the power "to create out of nothing" does not exist, and thus God could not have it.

1. Consider that all matter and energy and spirit and intelligence exists eternally. By "intelligence" I am talking about a seed like real thing that is in every "living" being. God provides the way for intelligences to have a physical body and provides the way for them to reject Evil and accept Good. But they are also given real freedom of choice. God created our world using building blocks that are eternal, and God did the best given given what was available. THUS, it is not the fault of God if unfairness and evil exist. God is still Good.

2. The true One Infinite God is NOT an immaterial, inconceivable, one being of three persons outside of time and space that creates everything out of nothing with blank-check powers. I reject this CWV. God in my faith is an infinite Union of finite beings from previous earths like the resurrected Jesus and Abraham and Sarah. Jesus really is the "Son" of the "Father", and will continue to progress and be as his Father is. And his Father was once a Son on a previous earth, with a Father before him. The faithful true children of Abraham and Sarah can become joint heirs with Jesus and also enter into this Union. This true One Infinite God has power over all powers that exist, and thus is all powerful. I realize that is hard to understand, but apparently that is because we do not understand "time". So the answer is: God is eternally creating God.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

''Christian'' is a title. It was because he came across as a good Christian why so many people fell under his spell.

jan.

Well to me I think folk who believe are gullible and I am sorry to say that because I do not intend to insult you but I must be honest.
His victims not only believed in him but they also believed in God such a terrible thing.
And you can bet those folk convinced themselves everything was Gods will..
In this big, very big universe why would an entity such that God would have to be care about you or me... That justs seems delusional to me. The whole deal seems delusional I simply cant accept it...
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

. I realize that is hard to understand, but apparently that is because we do not understand "time". So the answer is: God is eternally creating God.

Where do your thoughts come from... All I see is a pile of made up stuff.... Made up in ancient times by folk who were superstitious and had some very odd ideas about creation and the world.. They would have believed the world was flat and the only "land" that existed. They had no idea of the solar system let alone beyond and yet these folk were able to present a reason for it all.. a made up God.. All I ask for is one miserable small bit of mildly acceptable evidence.
Yet there is none.. I am sick of having the scriptures presented as authority.. More made up stuff by folk who were ruled by superstition.

Sorry I have no more to say.

Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

His victims not only believed in him but they also believed in God such a terrible thing.

Did they though?

If they believed in God, wouldn't have noticed the obvious contradiction, revealed in Jones's character, personality, and ethics? It was quite obvious.

And you can bet those folk convinced themselves everything was Gods will..

If they had understood anything about God, let alone His Will, they wouldn't have been there in the first place.

In this big, very big universe why would an entity such that God would have to be care about you or me...

You're looking at it from you're own perspective, and thinking 'that's too much'.
The trouble is, you're only prepared to look at it from that perspective (your perspective of God), and when someone explains why, or how, God can care for every living soul in the entire created manifestation, as though He is exclusively yours, you want proof. So in short you are prepared only, to accept God, as you see Him.

That justs seems delusional to me. The whole deal seems delusional I simply cant accept it...

Yet you were deluded in thinking that Jim Jones was a theist, and accept that you were wrong.
Could you be wrong about this?

jan.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

If they had understood anything about God, let alone His Will, they wouldn't have been there in the first place.

I would suggest if they never sort religion they would not have been taken in....
I can accept all you say a out Jones but talk of him is now irrelevant.

So in short you are prepared only, to accept God, as you see Him.

Lets be clear I dont accept the notion in any form.
I dont need to understand a better definition, I dont buy it.
Simple.

Could you be wrong about this?

Of course I could be wrong but I donot think so.
I have no doubt whatsoever.
I am not a gambler but I would take the bet that I am right at any odds... But here is the thing there is no way you could prove that I am wrong.
Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

I would suggest if they never sort religion they would not have been taken in....
I can accept all you say a out Jones but talk of him is now irrelevant.

Religion is natural, you don't have to seek it.
By the way you talk, you live your life by a code, or set of codes. That's what religion is.
The difference is, your way of life is a Godless one.

Lets be clear I dont accept the notion in any form.
I dont need to understand a better definition, I dont buy it.
Simple.

You accept a concept of God which you then, reject.
You can't refuse to buy into something unless you have an idea what you refuse to buy into.

But here is the thing there is no way you could prove that I am wrong.

I can't even prove that your name is Alex, but I accept it.
But you're right. You are wrong when it comes to God, but I can't prove it.

jan.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

You accept a concept of God which you then, reject.
You can't refuse to buy into something unless you have an idea what you refuse to buy into.

I do not accept the concept other than to say I don't not accept the concept of God.
I can refuse or reject what I like.
Give me a definition and I will reject it..try me.
Stop saying I can't reject it because on your view I don't know what God really means.
Give me something tangible if you are so determined but there is nothing..you have faith that you ste right.. Great stick with it...but I have absolutely no faith whatsoever there is anything that I am missing.

But you're right. You are wrong when it comes to God, but I can't prove it.

You may want to think about what you have just said.
I won't judge you but folk following this may well judge.
It seems like you ate twisting my words to make it seem I think I am wrong about my belief.
To be clear I do not think I am wrong.
But look Jan I know you get a kick out of this and for my part I do like talking to you but I don't think it is right to talk about personal beliefs like we have been doing.
I can't see religion doing well from the exposure.
Best wishes.
Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

I do not accept the concept other than to say I don't not accept the concept of God.
I can refuse or reject what I like.

Do you accept that what you reject is the concept of God?

Give me a definition and I will reject it..try me.

You already have a definition don't you?
If not then what is it you reject, refuse, or deny?

Stop saying I can't reject it because on your view I don't know what God really means.

Do you know what God really means?

Give me something tangible if you are so determined but there is nothing..you have faith that you ste right..

I'm not determined to do anything. If you want to refuse, reject, or deny God, it is your choice.

Great stick with it...but I have absolutely no faith whatsoever there is anything that I am missing.

Absolutely?
Interesting.

You may want to think about what you have just said.
I won't judge you but folk following this may well judge.

I have thought about it, which is why I wrote it.
What is so significant about it?

It seems like you ate twisting my words to make it seem I think I am wrong about my belief.
To be clear I do not think I am wrong.

You said; But here is the thing there is no way you could prove that I am wrong.
I said; But you're right. You are wrong when it comes to God, but I can't prove it.

You should get that paranoia looked at.

But look Jan I know you get a kick out of this and for my part I do like talking to you but I don't think it is right to talk about personal beliefs like we have been doing.

Why not?

I can't see religion doing well from the exposure.

I don't think it matters how well religion seems to be doing. As long as there are human beings, there will be religion.

jan.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

You should get that paranoia looked at.

Maybe but I just made a mistake no cause for alarm.

Why not?

Well I will be inclinded to disrespect your views and perhaps you may disrespect myviews.
But the reality is neither of us will change the others views or beliefs.
I just dont feel comfortable and my motivation in joining in these threads is not honorable as being frank I just want to mouth off how I dont like the hypocracy I have encountered and really that is not nice. I would rather avoid saying bad things about anyone but these threads has me saying things I would rather I keep tomyself.
I dont believe in God I do not need to promote or defend that fact or get into meaningless discussions on the fine points.
Alex

 

[DaveC426913]

You can't refuse to buy into something unless you have an idea what you refuse to buy into.

As a matter of fact, not only can you, but you should.

I don't need to hear anything beyond "We are a duct cleaning service" to know I don't need them.

Indeed, one would be swamped by clambering salesmen and inundated with flyers at every turn if one gave every new product equal time.

Likewise, as I've said before, if it's supernatural, then, by definition, there is insufficent evidence to do anything with.

 

[Jan Ardena]

DaveC426913,

You're following a strawman construct, a get out of answering questions clause.

You asked me a question. and I presented as my answer a question. which if answered honestly, will answer your question. But you are evading the question. Why? It is a simple straightforward question.

What are you afraid of?

jan.

 

[DaveC426913]

What are you afraid of?

An excellent question. I'm glad you brought this up, because it highlights your own tactics.

I presented as my answer a question.

This is dishonest when abused the way you do.

Explain to me why you have any business demanding anyone else answer your direct questions when you continually deny them that very courtesy.

I've got a dollar riding on this.

 

[Jan Ardena]

An excellent question. I'm glad you brought this up, because it highlights your own tactics.

You've been asked about tweleve thousand times to - in addition to many other questions - define God, and yet you evade and respond with more questions every time.

Explain to me why you have any business demanding anyone else answer your direct questions when you continually deny them that very courtesy.

I've got a dollar riding on this.

Are you crazy?
Show me a thread where I have evaded this question, right after you respond to my question.

jan.