Was Christ similar to Martin Luther?

D

Dinosaur

Rational Skeptic
Valued Senior Member
Martin Luther wanted to reform the Catholic Church. He was against various practices: Selling of indulgences, Church athentication of pieces of wood as being from the cross, & various other malpratices.

Luther did not intend to start a new religion. That happened when his attempts at reform failed.

When reading Mathew, Mark, Luke, & John it seemed to me that Christ was similarly trying to reform rather than replace Judiasm.

Any thoughts on the above?
 
Dinosaur said:
Martin Luther wanted to reform the Catholic Church. He was against various practices: Selling of indulgences, Church athentication of pieces of wood as being from the cross, & various other malpratices.

Luther did not intend to start a new religion. That happened when his attempts at reform failed.

When reading Mathew, Mark, Luke, & John it seemed to me that Christ was similarly trying to reform rather than replace Judiasm.

Any thoughts on the above?
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No, reforming means changing something to something different.. Martin Luther viewed some teachings of Catholicism as different but he applied his own interpretation to create something of his 'own'.

Jesus on the other hand came to bring back the message of the past- not to make something of his own to 'reform' Judaism- but to restore Judaism.

I would use the word Restitution or Restoration rather than Reformation for Jesus.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
Jesus was not trying to reform Judaism but he was trying to bring a new religion based on previous religions . He succeeded and now there are more than a billion Christians around the world . Few people follow his teaching and the rest are Christians in names and appearances only .
 
Dinosaur said:
Martin Luther wanted to reform the Catholic Church. He was against various practices: Selling of indulgences, Church athentication of pieces of wood as being from the cross, & various other malpratices.

Luther did not intend to start a new religion. That happened when his attempts at reform failed.

When reading Mathew, Mark, Luke, & John it seemed to me that Christ was similarly trying to reform rather than replace Judiasm.

Any thoughts on the above?
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Martin Luthers Reformation was a massive sucess.

How is Protestantism a new religion? it is a return to Fundamentalism, or the return to the fundamental message of Salvation through Grace, as preached by Jesus Christ, A Plea for Undeserved Mercy and Commutation of the Sentence of Death that is Man judgement for His sins.......not thought th eintercession of a priest, Papal Authority, Saint, or any other Man, Selling of Indulgences, Waits in Pergatory, or Good Acts in this World, It was a return to a personnel relationship with God, not filtered by the Catholic Church through it's Orthodoxy.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
Martin Luthers Reformation was a massive sucess.
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well considering modern protestant behavior how? just about everything he was against the protestants now have?

How is Protestantism a new religion?
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because it didn't exist before hand.
it is a return to Fundamentalism, or the return to the fundamental message of Salvation through Grace, as preached by Jesus Christ, A Plea for Undeserved Mercy and Commutation of the Sentence of Death that is Man judgement for His sins.......not thought th eintercession of a priest, Papal Authority, Saint, or any other Man, Selling of Indulgences, Waits in Pergatory, or Good Acts in this World,
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in other words the getting involved in worldly affairs and things they didn't like. good works are mentioned in the bible.
It was a return to a personnel relationship with God, not filtered by the Catholic Church through it's Orthodoxy.
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the catholic church is not orthodoxy and given how you defined protestantism it would in fact be orthodox in nature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox secondly you seem to be ignoring how much the catholic church has evolved since the reformation( not surprising given your response your probably a protestant and if your anything like most protestants I have met don't know shit about where your faith came from).


also the orthodox christian faiths are the most like the original christian beliefs and have much in common with the catholic church. they both use the the Nicene creed which came of the first Nicene counsal to discuss church doctrine. The ideas of protestantism aren't a return to tradional beliefs but instead creating new ones.





back on topic. christ was trying to fufill a prophecy luther was trying to fix the problems of the church nothing alike.
 
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Buffalo Roam said:
the fundamental message of Salvation through Grace, as preached by Jesus Christ,
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No, it was Paul who preached about Grace. A gift of the Holy Spirit. Remember Pentecost?
And if you want to be a good fundamentalist say "Grace alone", which Paul didn't say, but ignore that.
 
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Dinosaur said:
Martin Luther wanted to reform the Catholic Church. He was against various practices: Selling of indulgences, Church athentication of pieces of wood as being from the cross, & various other malpratices.

Luther did not intend to start a new religion. That happened when his attempts at reform failed.

When reading Mathew, Mark, Luke, & John it seemed to me that Christ was similarly trying to reform rather than replace Judiasm.

Any thoughts on the above?
Click to expand...

Jesus was the progression of Judaism. He did not come to reform but to take it to the next level. Some Jews went with the progression and became the first Christians.

What you say about martin luther is correct. He was a catholic who wanted to get rid of some of the catholic corruptions. But he was not a Christian as such because his proposed reforms never extended to actually believing Jesus. He only wanted to change a few things that personally offended him.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
Jesus was the progression of Judaism. He did not come to reform but to take it to the next level. Some Jews went with the progression and became the first Christians.

What you say about martin luther is correct. He was a catholic who wanted to get rid of some of the catholic corruptions. But he was not a Christian as such because his proposed reforms never extended to actually believing Jesus. He only wanted to change a few things that personally offended him.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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catholics are christians
 
Poor Old Luther. Damned by both sides.
If he's up in heaven looking down on this thread he must be having a quiet chuckle.
 
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I would agree with the OP. Both saw a decaying religious filled with corruption and clutter, and they tried to bring it back to what, in their mind, what's the roots.

Obviously, they're not both the same people. Luther wasn't ascended into godhood, blah blah blah.
 
Adstar said:
No catholics are not Christians.

Christians believe Jesus.

catholics believe the papacy.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Are you an idiot? Catholics believe in jesus. Catholics are christians but you are definitely not well educated on the topic.
 
786 said:
No, only Protestants have a monopoly on that word- 'Christian christian' :D Right Adstar?

Peace be unto you ;)
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No wrong 786.

Protestants are protesters against a varied number of catholic doctrines. Some are against a couple of catholic doctrines others are against a larger number.

Just because one is a protester like martin luther against a few doctrines does not make one a follower of Jesus.

As an example most "protestant" organizations agree with and honor the catholic doctrine of justifiable war, they even recognise the catholic dubbed saint thomas aquinas and refer to him a saint. The catholic who manufactured the twist.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
pjdude1219 said:
Are you an idiot? Catholics believe in jesus. Catholics are christians but you are definitely not well educated on the topic.
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Wrong again.

I was born into a catholic family and was braught up in the catholic church. i am a former altar boy, served in a catholic church for 10 years.

I know all about the catholic church. They believe in a jesus alright. One modified to the requirements of the power structures of this world and the traditions of men.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
No wrong 786.

Protestants are protesters against a varied number of catholic doctrines. Some are against a couple of catholic doctrines others are against a larger number.

Just because one is a protester like martin luther against a few doctrines does not make one a follower of Jesus.

As an example most "protestant" organizations agree with and honor the catholic doctrine of justifiable war, they even recognise the catholic dubbed saint thomas aquinas and refer to him a saint. The catholic who manufactured the twist.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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twist your out of freaking mind? Catholics are christian unless you believe christianity started in 1500's( IT didn't) Catholics were some of the first christians along with the Arians.
 
Adstar said:
Wrong again.

I was born into a catholic family and was braught up in the catholic church. i am a former altar boy, served in a catholic church for 10 years.

I know all about the catholic church. They believe in a jesus alright. One modified to the requirements of the power structures of this world and the traditions of men.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Clearly no you don't if you saying idiodcy like catholics are christian and being raised as a catholic you should no better but I guess you joined with protestants who don't shit about the history of the faith. Your wrong.
 
pjdude1219 said:
twist your out of freaking mind? Catholics are christian unless you believe christianity started in 1500's( IT didn't) Catholics were some of the first christians along with the Arians.
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catholisism started on the day that false Christian latched onto the lie of Constantine and accepted him as their king. On that day they rejected their King of Kings the Messiah Jesus.

Similar thing happened to the Jews. On the day they demanded Samuel make for them a king "Saul", It was the day they also rejected the God of Abraham because of their desire to follow a human king.

The basic foundation lie of Constantine was that he claimed that God wanted him to fight and kill for the throne of the roman empire with the sign of christianity on his solders shields. And this is related to the doctrine of justifiable war. It is a rebellion against the teachings of Jesus to his true followers not to take part in carnal warfare. Every true follower of Jesus would have seen how clearly false constantine’s claims where and would have rejected him out of hand. But many false christians wanting an end to persecution and having grown tired of waiting for Jesus return where more than willing to believe the lie and become spiritual harlots and get into bed with constantine.

I remember as a child being told stories of the first "catholics" going willingly like lambs to the slaughter in the coliseums of the roman empire. If the catholic church was smart they would have removed these stories and blacked out all such histories. Because they show true Christians willingly going to their deaths and not fighting "justifiable war".


Once again a Christian is one who believes Jesus and Jesus is his Word. Not the vain thinking of men who put forward doctrines that they think are correct.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
catholisism started on the day that false Christian latched onto the lie of Constantine and accepted him as their king. On that day they rejected their King of Kings the Messiah Jesus.
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So the first 1500 years of christianity weren't christianity(sorry mods for this forum but I must call this man what he is) dude your a moron.

Similar thing happened to the Jews. On the day they demanded Samuel make for them a king "Saul", It was the day they also rejected the God of Abraham because of their desire to follow a human king.
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Have you even read the torah or old testement?

The basic foundation lie of Constantine was that he claimed that God wanted him to fight and kill for the throne of the roman empire with the sign of christianity on his solders shields. And this is related to the doctrine of justifiable war. It is a rebellion against the teachings of Jesus to his true followers not to take part in carnal warfare. Every true follower of Jesus would have seen how clearly false constantine’s claims where and would have rejected him out of hand. But many false christians wanting an end to persecution and having grown tired of waiting for Jesus return where more than willing to believe the lie and become spiritual harlots and get into bed with constantine
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Where the fuck do get the bullshit from? Constantine coverted to christianity(catholicism)

I remember as a child being told stories of the first "catholics" going willingly like lambs to the slaughter in the coliseums of the roman empire. If the catholic church was smart they would have removed these stories and blacked out all such histories. Because they show true Christians willingly going to their deaths and not fighting "justifiable war".
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than your truely the dumbest SOB who walked this earth because protestants are the ones all gungho about going to war so by your own lgic its the protestants who aren't christian.


Once again a Christian is one who believes Jesus and Jesus is his Word.
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you mean like catholics?
Not the vain thinking of men who put forward doctrines that they think are correct.
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you mean like protestants and you?


does us both a favor and quit. the more you go on the dumber your going to make your self look.
 
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