Was Cho Seung-hui decision rational or irrational?

Was Cho Seung-hui's decision rational or irrational?

  • Total voters
    33
we have been violent since our species started out, and we are sill violent now. we will always be violent and kill each other. we need to stop thinking we can change it because we cant, and statistics prove this,

WE ARE ANIMALS WE ARE VIOLENT,

sorry for the cappital letters i will refrain in future :)


peace.
 
I must say I can't help sympathizing with Cho. It is obvious that he was mentally distrubed. He and people like him usually end up as a lensed mirror of the world around them. They go out in a blaze of fustration despair. I've listened to the evaluations of this guys by his peers or immediate classmates such as the roommate. I commend his roommate for trying to draw him but we could all try alittle harder to be more caring and attentive to the people around.

Ultimately we can only blame Cho so much. It was the world around him that both failed him and failed themselves. He was a time bomb waiting to go off. He'd been set by perhaps his parents or significant others in the past, wired perhaps even from birth a disaster waiting to happen. In a University where the last thing young adults are concerned about is lending assistance, caring about others. How much could have avoided if more had reached out or tried to befriend this troubled person.

We see people like Cho walk through our lives all the time. The won't look at us eye to eye. They can't hope to correct themselves. Cho couldn't have hoped to correct himself. It's up to us. We're the difussers.

Lend a hand, a listening ear, a word of advice, lend your conscious. 33 people didn't have to die.
 
You gave possible reasons why he snapped, but those should never be considered excuses, which you seem to be doing to a degree Saquist.

We all treat reasons as excuses from time to time, too often I'm afraid.
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
You gave possible reasons why he snapped, but those should never be considered excuses, which you seem to be doing to a degree Saquist.

We all treat reasons as excuses from time to time, too often I'm afraid.
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we treat problems, not hide them away labeled as "insane". Saquist is 100% correct.
 
Saquist said:
I must say I can't help sympathizing with Cho. It is obvious that he was mentally distrubed. He and people like him usually end up as a lensed mirror of the world around them. They go out in a blaze of fustration despair. I've listened to the evaluations of this guys by his peers or immediate classmates such as the roommate. I commend his roommate for trying to draw him but we could all try alittle harder to be more caring and attentive to the people around.

Ultimately we can only blame Cho so much. It was the world around him that both failed him and failed themselves. He was a time bomb waiting to go off. He'd been set by perhaps his parents or significant others in the past, wired perhaps even from birth a disaster waiting to happen. In a University where the last thing young adults are concerned about is lending assistance, caring about others. How much could have avoided if more had reached out or tried to befriend this troubled person.

We see people like Cho walk through our lives all the time. The won't look at us eye to eye. They can't hope to correct themselves. Cho couldn't have hoped to correct himself. It's up to us. We're the difussers.

Lend a hand, a listening ear, a word of advice, lend your conscious. 33 people didn't have to die.
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I must admit , that I am a bit disappointed with the mental institution he went to in 2005 ...........they let him go ..........I still wonder if they diagnosed him correctly ..........
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
I never said he probably wasn't loved on and communicated with as he should have been, but there are reasons he did what he did, not excuses.
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I see life as past and future and current. Ok. Whats done had been done. They died and he died. What should be done now? Students should help alienated individuals and make them accepted into society. That's future as well as current.
 
Saquist said:
I must say I can't help sympathizing with Cho. It is obvious that he was mentally distrubed. He and people like him usually end up as a lensed mirror of the world around them. They go out in a blaze of frustration despair. I've listened to the evaluations of this guys by his peers or immediate classmates such as the roommate. I commend his roommate for trying to draw him but we could all try a little harder to be more caring and attentive to the people around.

Ultimately we can only blame Cho so much. It was the world around him that both failed him and failed themselves. He was a time bomb waiting to go off. He'd been set by perhaps his parents or significant others in the past, wired perhaps even from birth a disaster waiting to happen. In a University where the last thing young adults are concerned about is lending assistance, caring about others. How much could have avoided if more had reached out or tried to befriend this troubled person.

We see people like Cho walk through our lives all the time. The won't look at us eye to eye. They can't hope to correct themselves. Cho couldn't have hoped to correct himself. It's up to us. We're the difussers.

Lend a hand, a listening ear, a word of advice, lend your conscious. 33 people didn't have to die.
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Well said. Those are my thoughts exactly. I had a discussion with my wife this morning about it. She was saying that (according to the the news reports) his behavior prior to the shooting was "weird", and I was saying that his actions were more akin to being withdrawn and "in a shell". The whole paradox of it is it's obvious he wanted/needed friends, yet the same antisocial behaviors that develop while a person is feeling isolated tend to push people away. He is one of those cases where socializing with him would have been really one sided in the beginning - it would have required us (not him) to do all the legwork in getting through his shell.

I voted "rational" - I think his actions were stupid, not crazy.
 
Sputnik

I must admit , that I am a bit disappointed with the mental institution he went to in 2005 ...........they let him go ..........I still wonder if they diagnosed him correctly ..........
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Why be disappointed in the institution, by law they couldn't hold him, and he was free to leave at any time he chose, the people to be disappointed in is the government that made these laws, in the sixties and has no responsibility to protect you, and then take away your ability to defend your self, why do these things happen in schools? could it be that the Schools are a gun free zone? by law, and you as a responsible citizen obey those laws that say you can't have a gun there, but do the criminals? do the people like Cho? no they make their statements no matter how twisted in the schools because they know that they will have no opposition until after they have thrown their temper tantrum and achieved the notoriety that they seek, at the expence of the innocent.
 
i do agree with saquist people like him need to be accepted into social groups and not alienated from society,

we all see loners and troubled people like cho without many friends to support them and i sometimes wonder what is going on inside the minds of such people, you can see hurt in the eyes. i feel sad seeng people look that way.


ahh i almost feel human for a second *snaps out of it* .

screw him and screw them its nature :)

peace.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
ahh i almost feel human for a second *snaps out of it* .

screw him and screw them its nature :)

peace.
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no. That is wrong. don't snap out of it, or else they will come and more deaths will follow. Care for them. Say hi to one you see alone, start a conversation, offer something free. Do react.



"As you do unto others, do unto yourself"
 
Saquist

We see people like Cho walk through our lives all the time. The won't look at us eye to eye. They can't hope to correct themselves. Cho couldn't have hoped to correct himself. It's up to us. We're the difussers.

Lend a hand, a listening ear, a word of advice, lend your conscious. 33 people didn't have to die.
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Bull Shit:

http://news.aol.com/topnews/article...r/20070418181009990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

In September 2005, Cho was enrolled in Giovanni's introduction to creative writing class. From the beginning, he began building a wall between himself and the rest of the class.

He wore sunglasses to class and pulled his maroon knit cap down low over his forehead. When she tried to get him to participate in class discussion, his answer was silence.

It was more invasive.

"Violent is like, 'I'm going to do this,"' said Giovanni, a three-time NAACP Image Award winner who is sometimes called "the princess of black poetry." This was more like a personal violation, as if Cho were objectifying his subjects, "doing thing to your body parts."

"It's not like, 'I'll rip your heart out,"' she recalled. "It's that, 'Your bra is torn,and I'm looking at your flesh."'

His work had no meter or structure or rhyme scheme. To Giovanni, it was simply "a tirade."

Roy alerted student affairs, the dean's office, even the campus police, but each said there was nothing they could do if Cho had made no overt threats against himself or others. So Roy took him on as a kind of personal tutor.

"There was no writing. I wasn't teaching him anything, and he didn't want to learn anything," she said. "And I finally realized either I was going to lose my class, or Mr. Cho had to leave."
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Giovanni wrote a letter to then-department head Lucinda Roy, who removed Cho.

Suitemates and others have said Cho rejected their overtures of friendship. Roy sensed that Cho's isolation might be largely self-imposed.

"He was actually quite arrogant and could be quite obnoxious, and was also deeply, it seemed, insecure," she said.

Giovanni encountered Cho only once after she had him removed from her class. She was walking down a path on the main campus and noticed him coming toward her. They maintained eye contact until passing each other.
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And this says it all, he was a bully and was trying to intimidate, and that is the problem, the PC say we can't confront a bully we have to understand him, and that we are as much at fault for him being a bully as he is, what a bunch of psychobabble, Bullies have to be confronted and taken care of by the school as early as possible and it need to be recognized that no one is responsible for a bullies behavior but he himself, and that he must take full responsibility for his actions, and face full sanctions for that behavior.


Giovanni, who had survived lung cancer, was determined she would not blink first.

"I was not going to look away as if I were afraid," she said. "To me he was a bully, and I had no fear of this child."
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draqon said:
no. That is wrong. don't snap out of it, or else they will come and more deaths will follow. Care for them. Say hi to one you see alone, start a conversation, offer something free. Do react.



"As you do unto others, do unto yourself"
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i am actualy a very nice person i know from reading my posts people might think i am harsh, but far from it. i am very polite and i do ofer my time to people that seem hurt or lonely.

i do start convosations with random people all the time, thats why i know so many people because i am not shy. my wife usualy is the opposite and is very reserved and judgemental of strangers,

a stranger is a friend you havent met yet :)

she usualy doesent like me talking to complete strangers (especialy if they are women)


peace.
 
domestic:
The whole paradox of it is it's obvious he wanted/needed friends, yet the same antisocial behaviors that develop while a person is feeling isolated tend to push people away. He is one of those cases where socializing with him would have been really one sided in the beginning - it would have required us (not him) to do all the legwork in getting through his shell.
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I agree, to an extent. Someone who has been neglected socially is harder to socialize with, merely because they become suspicious of your motives.

But it's NOT difficult to break down the barriers of even the most anti-social, if you are sincere and consistent. Smile, show a genuine interest, invite them to lunch. If they are alone, ask to join then.

I sympathize with Cho. I'm socially awkward (not to the same degree, I'm guessing), I hate crowds, and I get those embarassing pauses in conversations. I feel like a spectator in groups. There is a bit of evidence to suggest that this problem is genetic, and it runs down my mother's side.

I've tried to form connections with people in the past, and been pushed away. This leads to resentment and anger on my behalf, and the vindication of the notion that people are generally insincere when they express interest towards you.
There is also a feeling of failure, as you aren't able to maintain a simple relationship with a fellow human being. Sometimes life seems stagnant without any meaningful human contact.

Nothing makes me happier than someone coming up to me, smiling, and being genuinely happy to see me. Or showing a little appreciation. Sadly, I seem to only get such behaviour from a dog (despite the fact that I'm polite and courteous during the first encounter), which is why I'm fonder of animals than people.

I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar that if just one person had approached Cho that day, smiled, and acted happy to see him, his resentment would have melted away, and the shooting spree would have been forgotten.

I think that the big problem is that socially 'inept' people are treated with ridicule and scorn. If you are physically crippled, people are eternally patient, and make every allowance. You receive bucketloads of sympathy. Why can't people be a little more patient and accepting of the introverted?

It would be pay off in the end. Fewer traumatized human beings. Fewer crimes of hatred and frustration.

I can imagine what will happen in the aftermath of this atrocity. Some will try to forget it. Others will take it as proof that complacency leads to disaster, and that tighter security measures are required: More searches, metal detectors, stricter firearm controls.

Civil liberties will be further restricted. Students will be further sheltered. And there will 'security'.

Until the next massacre.
 
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"princess of black poetry"

why is "black poetry" seperate to "white poetry"

or by black does that mean dark or sinister poetry? if so i take back my racial statement and receed back into my cave.

peace
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
and receed back into my cave.
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Oh EFC don't recede back into the cave. :bawl:

mouse1w.jpg
 
mountainhare said:
domestic:


I agree, to an extent. Someone who has been neglected socially is harder to socialize with, merely because they become suspicious of your motives.

But it's NOT difficult to break down the barriers of even the most anti-social, if you are sincere and consistent. Smile, show a genuine interest, invite them to lunch. If they are alone, ask to join then.

I sympathize with Cho. I'm socially awkward (not to the same degree, I'm guessing), I hate crowds, and I get those embarassing pauses in conversations. I feel like a spectator in groups. There is a bit of evidence to suggest that this problem is genetic, and it runs down my mother's side.

I've tried to form connections with people in the past, and been pushed away. This leads to resentment and anger on my behalf, and the vindication of the notion that people are generally insincere when they express interest towards you.
There is also a feeling of failure, as you aren't able to maintain a simple relationship with a fellow human being. Sometimes life seems stagnant without any meaningful human contact.

Nothing makes me happier than someone coming up to me, smiling, and being genuinely happy to see me. Or showing a little appreciation. Sadly, I seem to only get such behaviour from a dog (despite the fact that I'm polite and courteous during the first encounter), which is why I'm fonder of animals than people.

I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar that if just one person had approached Cho that day, smiled, and acted happy to see him, his resentment would have melted away, and the shooting spree would have been forgotten.

I think that the big problem is that socially 'inept' people are treated with ridicule and scorn. If you are physically crippled, people are eternally patient, and make every allowance. You receive bucketloads of sympathy. Why can't people be a little more patient and accepting of the introverted?

It would be pay off in the end. Fewer traumatized human beings. Fewer crimes of hatred and frustration.

I can imagine what will happen in the aftermath of this atrocity. Some will try to forget it. Others will take it as proof that complacency leads to disaster, and that tighter security measures are required: More searches, metal detectors, stricter firearm controls.

Civil liberties will be further restricted. Students will be further sheltered. And there will 'security'.

Until the next shooting.
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i am genuinly happy to read your posts! and i would be your friend you seem cool to me,

:)

peace.
 
Let me say first that I'm taking a 20 day break from posting here, that being said I couldn't help but to comment.

You are all making very excellent points, everything you say rings true in some sense. Cho was clearly not rational (as no rational person would kill 32 people) this problem can't be easily solved. From what I've learned of Cho he probably wasn't following the right path. I don't think this guy liked majoring in english, it would seem to me he hated it. Think about it, if you're attending a University and you enjoy your major why go and kill everyone in school?

So I classify the Universities first error was letting this fellow major in something he really hated (though he might not have known this). They should be required to test and find something each person will enjoy, if they can this will be avoided.

Next I move onto whether he's evil or to be forgiven. I wouldn't say Cho can be forgiven as he's responsible for killing so many, the main thing to remember is the students didn't kill Cho, so no matter how bad his lonliness was killing them certainly wasn't an answer.

Could he have been helped? Some here suggest holding him against his will would be the best choice, unfortunately there must be a clear intent to do this... I believe having a clear intent (to harm) is the only reason to hold someone. If he said "I'm going to kill everyone" then certainly hold him for awhile until he's stablized. Why the hospital he was at in 2005 let him leave is beyond me, but then again maybe not... you see I'm on antidepressants and seeing a psychiatrist so I know something about that.

When you're getting therapy or seeing a doctor for a mental disorder they don't actually have any clue what's wrong. What usually happens is they'll listen, if you claim you're depressed they'll prescribe you medication, if you're angry they'll give you medication... talking doesn't help because you don't wanna talk you wanna feel better. Basically having a psych degree means nothing, it's all about who you're dealing with and whether they have a full grasp of psychology. Most of the time these people are so blind and stupid you know more about how you feel than they do! That's why they let Cho leave, they have absolutely no clue what they're doing my friends. If they did they'd have realized someone that's upset and angry will eventually have fantasy's of killing.

Moving on... I don't pity Cho, I don't hate Cho... I wouldn't kill Cho if I knew this beforehand. It's likely I would warn students, then let faculty know. I admitt one thing here friends... why Cho sent a package with photos of himself + weapons, why he even cared... it's beyond me. If you're suicidal why would you care about sending anything?!

A few more items to consider... 48 hours after the 32 are murdered the school + town hold a memorial service?! They're fucking kidding me right.... the parents aren't even attending and have no time to deal with this, but they, strangers think "let's have a memorial service for all the campus and invite president Bush." If anything is more fucked up than Cho it's the school, they can't be seriously thinking it's a good thing to do this?! I feel bad for anyone that was involved an injured, they can lay in the hospital bed thinking "wtf are they holding a memorial service now for, we're all still injured and hurt."

Bush made a serious error in judgement going to speak so soon, and this is what happens... Cho's mail comes to NBC and eclipses the memorial service they had making it pale. Even in death Cho won because they didn't want to wait and he managed to cause yet more pain.
 
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