VitalOne
I have never heard of any descriptions in the vedas of humans having the capacity to attain higher perfections than the demigods - do you have any vedic statements or recollection of puranic incidents to back up these claims? ”
Really? I don't believe there's any statements in the Vedas.
here's one
BG 7.23: Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.
here's two
BG 9.20: Those who study the Vedas and drink the soma juice, seeking the heavenly planets, worship Me indirectly. Purified of sinful reactions, they take birth on the pious, heavenly planet of Indra, where they enjoy godly delights.
BG 9.21: When they have thus enjoyed vast heavenly sense pleasure and the results of their pious activities are exhausted, they return to this mortal planet again. Thus those who seek sense enjoyment by adhering to the principles of the three Vedas achieve only repeated birth and death.
here's a sequence that spells it out in case you are still thinking that humans are more elevated than demigods
SB 11.10.21: That material happiness of which we hear, such as promotion to heavenly planets for celestial enjoyment, is just like that material happiness we have already experienced. Both are polluted by jealousy, envy, decay and death. Therefore, just as an attempt to raise crops becomes fruitless if there are many problems like crop disease, insect plague or drought, similarly, the attempt to attain material happiness, either on earth or on the heavenly planets, is always fruitless because of innumerable obstacles.
SB 11.10.22: If one performs Vedic sacrifices and fruitive rituals without any mistake or contamination, one will achieve a heavenly situation in the next life. But even this result, which is only achieved by perfect performance of fruitive rituals, will be vanquished by time. Now hear of this.
SB 11.10.23: If on earth one performs sacrifices for the satisfaction of the demigods, he goes to the heavenly planets, where, just like a demigod, he enjoys all of the heavenly pleasures he has earned by his performances.
SB 11.10.24: Having achieved the heavenly planets, the performer of ritualistic sacrifices travels in a glowing airplane, which he obtains as the result of his piety on earth. Being glorified by songs sung by the Gandharvas and dressed in wonderfully charming clothes, he enjoys life surrounded by heavenly goddesses.
SB 11.10.25: Accompanied by heavenly women, the enjoyer of the fruits of sacrifice goes on pleasure rides in a wonderful airplane, which is decorated with circles of tinkling bells and which flies wherever he desires. Being relaxed, comfortable and happy in the heavenly pleasure gardens, he does not consider that he is exhausting the fruits of his piety and will soon fall down to the mortal world.
SB 11.10.26: Until his pious results are used up, the performer of sacrifice enjoys life in the heavenly planets. When the pious results are exhausted, however, he falls down from the pleasure gardens of heaven, being moved against his desire by the force of eternal time.
I could give you stacks more but I think the message is clear - humans seek the heavenly planets to attain perfections (in terms of sense enjoyment and mystic perfection)
And in response to your posts of texts to suggest otherwise
SB 3.15.24: Lord Brahmā said: My dear demigods, the human form of life is of such importance that we also desire to have such life, for in the human form one can attain perfect religious truth and knowledge.
notice how the purport to this text gives no indication of mystic perfections like walking on water
Brahmā and other demigods have much better material bodies than human beings, yet the demigods, including Brahmā, nevertheless desire to attain the human form of life because it is specifically meant for the living entity who can attain transcendental knowledge and religious perfection. It is not possible to go back to Godhead in one life, but in the human form one should at least understand the goal of life and begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is said that the human form is a great boon because it is the most suitable boat for crossing over the nescience ocean. The spiritual master is considered to be the most able captain in that boat, and the information from the scriptures is the favorable wind for floating over the ocean of nescience. The human being who does not take advantage of all these facilities in this life is committing suicide. Therefore one who does not begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the human form of life loses his life to the influence of the illusory energy. Brahmā regrets the situation of such a human being.
and if you want to try and jump over the purport (which i don't recommend) the word tattva-visaya (the subject matter of the absolute truth) is used to indicate what is so special about the human form of life (as opposed to yoga balena, mystic power, which is something the demigods have in great reserves already)
same problems in your next text
SB 11.20.12: The residents of both heaven and hell desire human birth on the earth planet because human life facilitates the achievement of transcendental knowledge and love of Godhead, whereas neither heavenly nor hellish bodies efficiently provide such opportunities.
transcendental knowledge is translated fromt he word jnana
bhaktibhyam as opposed to jnana
yogibhyam
bhakti is something very unique and distinct from mystic perfections, which are outwardly declared as being mundane and an impediment to the serious spiritual practioner
SB 11.15.33: Learned experts in devotional service state that the mystic perfections of yoga that I have mentioned are actually impediments and are a waste of time for one who is practicing the supreme yoga, by which one achieves all perfection in life directly from Me.
SB 11.15.34: Whatever mystic perfections can be achieved by good birth, herbs, austerities and mantras can all be achieved by devotional service to Me; indeed, one cannot achieve the actual perfection of yoga by any other means.
further evidenced from purport to 1.7.10
According to Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya, the import of the word ittham-bhüta is "complete bliss." Transcendental bliss in the realization of impersonal Brahman becomes comparable to the scanty water contained in the pit made by a cow's hoof. It is nothing compared with the ocean of bliss of the vision of the Personality of Godhead. The personal form of Lord sri krsna is so attractive that it comprehends all attraction, all bliss and all tastes (rasas). These attractions are so strong that no one wants to exchange them for material enjoyment, mystic powers and liberation.
Furthermore it is stated that Brahma and other devas desire liberation and that at the end of the universe Brahma will attain liberation. Human beings can attain liberation even in this lifetime, and realize their true identity with Brahm.
here you are talking about bhakti - the demigods (that are knowledgable about the value of bhakti) are eager to take birth in the earthly sphere because in the heavenly planets the opulences of wealth and mysticism are great impediments to th eperformance of bhakti - in other words they are prepared to cash in their materially and mystically superior positions ot take birth as humans because they understand that both things (opulences and mystic perfection) are temporary and do not solve the real issues of life
As for mystic perfections (siddhis) and powers (Vibhutis) they're mentioned in detail in the Yoga Sutras and the Srimad Bhagavatam (11.15). Anyone who elevates their consciousness to samadhi or higher can attain them, they include abilities like flying, walking on water, materializing objects, etc...
These things are not what the demigods are queuing up for to take birth on th earth for - on the contrary they already have them and are eager to renounce them for the valuable oppportunity to perform bhakti
eg - SB 3.24.8: At the time of the Lord's appearance, the demigods flying freely in the sky showered flowers. All the directions, all the waters and everyone's mind became very satisfied.
from the purport
"It is learned herewith that in the higher sky there are living entities who can travel through the air without being hampered. Although we can travel in outer space, we are hampered by so many impediments, but they are not. We learn from the pages of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that the inhabitants of the planet called Siddhaloka can travel in space from one planet to another without impediment."
“ Buddha is an incarnation of vishnu (saktyavesa avatar) and his appearance is foretold in scriptures at least 2000 years before he appeared.
http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclo...demigods.htm#3 ”
During The Buddha's lifetime he wasn't considered an incarnation of Buddha, he was considered to be another spiritual master.
thats because buddha was dealing primarily with atheists (sura dvisam). His mission wasn't to getthem to accept him as god but to get them to obey his instructions, particularly on ahimsa, so that they would refrain from sinful activity
However later on they discovered that he matched the description of The Buddha-Avatara.
The scriptures that elaborate on Buddhas appearance were in existence many many years before Buddha
