Violence and Cruelty in the Book of Mormon

[mustafhakofi]

we're always picking on the xians and muslims, lets pick on somebody else for a change.

1 Nephi

1. Nephi is forced by "the Spirit" to kill Laban. 4:10

2. "The Lord hath delivered him [Laban] into thy [Nephi's] hands." -- the Spirit 4:11

3. The Spirit said unto me [Nephi] again: "Slay him [Laban]." 4:12

4. God kills bad people to achieve good ends. (The ends justify the means.) It's better to kill one person than have a whole nation die unbelievers. 4:13

5. Nephi obeys "the Spirit" by grabbing Laban by the hair and chopping off his head. 4:18

6. God destroys entire nations of "wicked" people and curses the land for their sakes. 17:37-38

7. God "sent fiery flying serpents" to bite people. (Num.21:6) 17:41

8. God will force people to eat their own flesh and drink their own blood. 21:26

9. The members of "the great and abominable church" (the whore of all the earth) will kill each other and get drunk on their own blood. 22:13

10. All those that fight again Zion (Mormonism), like "that great whore, that great and abominable church" will be destroyed. 22:14

11. The day is soon coming when God's wrath will be poured out and all proud, wicked people will be burned. 22:16-17
2 Nephi

12. Those who do not believe in the Messiah (Jesus) will be destroyed by fires, storms, earthquakes, war, disease, and starvation. 6:15

13. God will force people to eat their own flesh and drink their own blood. 6:18

14. Filthy people will be tormented forever in a lake of fire. 9:16

15. Hell is a lake of fire and brimstone where the damned are tormented forever. 9:19, 9:26

16. Those who don't believe or who are not baptized will be damned to hell. 9:24

17. Many children will die because of their unbelief. 10:2

18. To punish them for their iniquities, God sent famines, disease, wars, and destruction on the Jews. 10:6

19. God will make sweet smelling things stink, make people bald, and cause men to die in wars. 13:24-25

20. If you associate or gird yourself, God will break you in pieces. 18:9

21. God will not have mercy on orphans or widows. 19:17

22. God will make every man kill his brother and then force him to eat "the flesh of his own arm." 19:19-20

23. God will "smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked." God must have some pretty bad breath! 21:4

24. On God's special day he will kill sinners with great anger, wrath, and cruelty. 23:6-9

25. If God can find you, he will "thrust you through," smash your children "to pieces" before your eyes, and rape your wife. He will have no mercy, but will even kill your little children. 23:15-18

26. Children will be slaughtered for the iniquities of their fathers. 24:21

27. Those who are proud will be burned to death by God. 26:4

28. Those who kill saints and prophets will be swallowed by the earth, covered with mountains, carried away by whirlwinds, crushed by falling buildings, destroyed by thunder, lightening, earthquakes, and fire. 26:5-6

29. God will get the Gentiles to kill all those who "dwindle in unbelief." 26:19

30. Death, hell, the devil, and the "endless torment" of "the lake of fire and brimstone." 28:23

31. God will "smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his mouth he shall slay the wicked." How's that for some bad breath? 30:9

32. God must burn wicked people to death. (I guess he has no choice in the matter.) 30:10
Jacob

33. God casts some people into a "lake of fire and brimstone" where they suffer "the pains of hell." 3:11

34. God commanded Abraham to kill his son Isaac. (And that was a good thing?) 4:5

35. God will curse some people and burn the world with fire. 6:3

36. Those who "bring forth evil fruit" will be "cast into the fire." 6:7

37. God will cast some people into a lake of fire and brimstone where he will torment them forever. 6:10
Mosiah

38. Those who die in their sins are tormented forever in hell. 2:33

39. Those in hell "endure a never-ending torment." 2:39

40. The damned are in a state of misery and endless torment. 3:25

41. The damned are tormented forever in a lake of fire and brimstone. 3:27

42. God answers the Nephites prayers, and helps them kill 3043 Lamanites in one day and a night. 9:18

43. The Nephites drove the Lamanites away, killing them with "a great slaughter". They killed so many that they couldn't count them all. 10:20

44. The Lord says that this (which?) generation will be slain and their bodies will be eaten by vultures, dogs, and wild beasts. 12:2

45. God will smite his people with sore afflictions, famine, pestilence, and will cause them to howl all the day long. 12:4

46. Those who don't know Christ will be thrown into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 26:27
Alma

47. Those who refuse to kill a murderer must have his blood fall upon them. 1:13

48. God helped the Nephites slaughter 12,532 Amlicites. 2:18-19

49. The Lord did hear their cries [he had his hearing aid on], ... and the Lamanites and Amlicites did fall before them. 2:28

50. God will destroy those who don't repent. 8:16, 9:12

51. Some people will be tortured forever in the fires of hell. 12:17

52. Ammon killed "a certain number" of people with his sling. 17:36

53. Ammon smote off their arms with his sword. 17:37

54. Ammon carried the arms that he had cut off to show to the king. 17:39

55. "Tens of thousands of Lamanites (Native Americans) were slain and scattered abroad." 28:2

56. The bodies of "many thousands" were left to rot on the ground. 28:11

57. So many died in the religious war that the dead bodies couldn't be counted. 30:2

58. Since Alma can't refute Korihor's arguments, he says he'll have God smite him so that he can no longer speak. It's better, he says, that Korihor's soul be lost than that he convince others that there is no God. 30:47

59. Korihor "was struck dumb ... according to the words of Alma." 30:50

60. "The curse was not taken off of Korihor; but he was cast out, and went about from house to house begging for his food." 30:56

61. The chief judge warned everyone not to believe Korihor or they will also be struck dumb and be forced to beg for their food. 30:57

62. Zoram lead his people away from the Nephites so he was trampled upon by the Nephites until he was dead. 30:59

63. If you ask God to kill your enemies, he will do it for you. 33:10

64. Evil people are those who "have no part or portion of the Spirit of the Lord." They will be "cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth." 40:13

65. God is with Moroni and the Nephites. The Lord has delivered the Lamanites into their hands "because of [their] religion and [their] faith in Christ." 44:3

66. "Now ye see that this is the true faith of God." (You can tell by all the nonbelievers they kill.) 44:4

67. In the war with the Lamanites, God is on the Nephites side. He just likes their religion better. 44:5

68. Moroni gets angry and orders his people to kill the Lamanites, which was exceedingly easy since they were all naked as jaybirds. 44:17-18

69. If the Nephites forsake God, then God will tear them to pieces. 46:21

70. The Nephites make a deal with God. If they fail to follow God properly, then God can kill them all. 46:22

71. Those who will not support the cause of freedom are put to death. (The Bush Doctrine?) 46:35

72. Four thousand dissenters were "hewn down by the sword." 51:19

73. Teancum snuck into the king's tent and stuck a javelin into his heart. 51:34

74. There is an "awful hell that awaits" those who fail to repent. 54:7

75. Moroni threatens to kill all the Lamanites, taking "blood for blood" and "life for life." 54:12

76. The Nephites kill two thousand Lamanites after they had surrenedered as prisoners of war. 57:14

77. Moroni executed "those king-men" who refused to fight for their country. 62:9

78. "Whosoever was found denying their freedom was speedily executed." 62:10

79. Moroni "inflicted death upon all those who were not true to the cause of freedom." 62:11

80. Teancum sneaks into the Lamanite's camp and throws a javelin into the king's heart. 62:36

81. Moroni and the Nephites slay the Lamanites "with a great slaughter." 62:38
Helaman

82. Those who rebelled against the Nephites (Mormons) were killed or "driven out of the land." 4:2

83. God gives Nephi the power to "smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction." 10:6

84. If Nephi asks God to "smite this people, it shall come to pass." 10:10

85. Nephi asks God to send a famine on the land. "And so it was done, according to the words of Nephi. ... And the whole earth was smitten," causing thousands of people to starve to death. 11:4-6

86. God must kill and terrorize people with starvation and disease or they won't remember him. 12:3

87. God torments people in hell forever for "their iniquities." 12:20

88. God will consign evil doers "to a state of endless misery" and "everlasting damnation." 12:26

89. God prophesies that he will kill the Nephites with war, starvation, and disease within the next 400 years or so. (And I guess if you believe the Book of Mormon, he did with a little help from the Lamanites). 13:9

90. If there weren't some "righteous" people in the city, God would have burned everyone to death by sending down fire from heaven. 13:13

91. If the Nephites don't repent, God will kill them all for their unbelief. 15:17
3 Nephi

92. When Jesus died, the inhabitants of many great cities died with him. Entire cities were sunk into the ocean, or were burned, or destroyed by earthquakes. 8:8-10, 14

93. The voice (who finally identifies himself as Jesus Christ) brags about burning to death, drowning, and burying alive all of the inhabitants of 16 large cities. 9:3-15

94. Jesus says that whoever does not believe in him and is not baptized will be damned to hell. 11:34

 

[water]

Yup. The lovey-dovey-we-love-you-all Mormons ...

 

[Brutus1964]

This is why I did not want to name my particular faith because I knew it would ultimately bring on the Mormon bashing.

However all these questions can be answered the same way as I would answer if it was pertaining to the Old Testament.

Sometimes it is justified to kill people in defense of yourself, family, faith, and country. In The Old Testament and The Book Of Mormon God would smite the enemies of righteousness so future generations would not be lost to ignorance and disbelief. Before the atonement God had to bring much harsher judgment on people. After the atonement he could show mercy because Jesus Christ paid the price of sin. This is why in the Olden days the wrath of God was much stronger than it is today.

God is the ultimate judge. We are not the judges of God. To have faith is to believe what ever God does he has a righteous purpose for it.

 

[mustafhakofi]

Sometimes it is justified to kill people in defense of yourself, family, faith, and country

but your god and it's followers, killed for no good reason, to kill in defence of your family maybe, but any other reason is wrong and no amount of justification can merit it, be it a god or not.

In The Old Testament and The Book Of Mormon God would smite the enemies of righteousness so future generations would not be lost to ignorance and disbelief.

define righteous, it's different horses for different courses( what religion you are), but you so called generations are lost in ignorance, and as for disbelief, smite me now, smite me, I dont believe.
how can you stand there and say your god of love?, had to bring harsher judgements, a loving thing does not make you fear it. the wrath of god was feared more in the past because people were not educated like they are today.
there are many more clear thinking people today then there have ever been.

This is why I did not want to name my particular faith because I knew it would ultimately bring on the Mormon bashing.

why is you faith any better then any of the hundreds of others, are you some how special, this was said by an old lady friend about someone simular, does he think he's got golden bollocks.
this is a religious forum, open to, as you say bash, any religion or non-religion.

 

[Brutus1964]

Mustafhkofi

Do you consider yourself higher than God as to judge his purposes? When you say he kills for no reason how do you know? Do you know the mind of God? Can you see all and make that determination? You do not see God because you have blinded yourself from him.

 

[one_raven]

we're always picking on the xians and muslims, lets pick on somebody else for a change.

Curious, you say that as if Mormons aren't Christians.

 

[Brutus1964]

One Raven

We are definitely Christian. Our Church’s official name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I will proudly admit that we do have some beliefs that differ sharply from main stream Christian denominations.

 

[one_raven]

I know.
That's why I thought that statement was curious.

 

[Bells]

Mustafhkofi

Do you consider yourself higher than God as to judge his purposes? When you say he kills for no reason how do you know? Do you know the mind of God? Can you see all and make that determination? You do not see God because you have blinded yourself from him.

Atheists don't consider themselves over something we do not believe. And frankly, I don't know about kofi, but I'd want to blind myself to any entity that has committed acts of genocide and says it's love.

 

[Brutus1964]

Bells

Mustafhkofi said "but your god and it's followers, killed for no good reason, to kill in defence of your family maybe, but any other reason is wrong and no amount of justification can merit it, be it a god or not."

How can "your god" kill anyone if He does not exist?

 

[one_raven]

Racism does not exist as an entity, but it does kill.
(or, shall I say it is responsible for murders?)

 

[Brutus1964]

One Raven

Just like guns, racism does not kill people. People kill people.

 

[one_raven]

Just like guns, racism does not kill people. People kill people.

I admit you have a point, but you have to admit that it is an unfair analogy.

Racism is a system of belief, just as religions are, that has a life force and momentum of its own.
It is not an inanimate object, such as a gun.
It sways people's beliefs, it encourages them to act and believe in a certain way.
It evolves, just as any other life form does, just as God does in the images and ideals of people, whether or not God really does exist.

 

[path]

One Raven

Just like guns, racism does not kill people. People kill people.

OMG I can't beleive you actually said that I am laughing and crying at the same time.

 

[Bells]

Bells



How can "your god" kill anyone if He does not exist?

Ermm where did I say my god? I merely stated brutus that I would probably wish to blind myself to 'ANY ENTITY that committed genocide and called it love'. If you see that as saying 'my god', then you're as blind as the man who claims your book of beliefs come from glowing rocks. I'm an atheist brutus, I don't have a God. I don't pray to any God. I was born, live my life and one day I will die and hopefully my ashes will feed the fish. That's it. Pure and simple.

 

[Brutus1964]

Bells

I was quoting Mustafhkofi who said "your God". You responded to a post that I had directed to him. That is what caused the confusion. Sorry.

 

[one_raven]

Brutus,
I am curious what response you have to my last post.
(sorry, I've always been impatient )

 

[Brutus1964]

One Raven

Hate of any kind can drive someone to kill. Whether it is because of race, religion, or anything that makes someone different than another. Hate is an emotional response that often times leads to violence. Hate is a cause or a motivation for violence and a gun is a method. There certainly is a difference and I understand that, but ultimately it is not the hate or a gun or anything else but a person's conscious decision to kill someone else.

 

[mustafhakofi]

Mustafhakofi

Do you consider yourself higher than God as to judge his purposes? When you say he kills for no reason how do you know? Do you know the mind of God? Can you see all and make that determination? You do not see God because you have blinded yourself from him.

already answered this in the last post

to kill in defence of your family maybe, but any other reason is wrong and no amount of justification can merit it, be it a god or not.

I am an atheist, I dont think I'm higher, I am higher as it does not exist to me, therefore I must be higher then nothing as I am something, something that does not exist, has no mind.
and as bells said I could not follow something that is quite clearly evil, if it existed, that is.

Curious, you say that as if Mormons aren't Christians.

I'm sorry one raven I was'nt thinking, it was just that I'd never seen a totally mormon thread, on this forum and till only recently,I had'nt seen any jewish threads.
sorry for the cock up.

 

[duendy]

at the bottom of the road i live, we get travelling Mormons who are doing their 'initiating' duties. they come from all over...America, Russia, Germany, etc

they all wear very straight clothes, kind of like circa 1960s including haircuts...which is quite a turn on actually....achem

when you pass them, they say 'good mornine. 'good evening' etc which isn't done now regarding manners in our country ...people usually just dont let on to strangers

one can tell this is a ploy to pull yer in. sometimes i will ignore themj.

i have in the past invited them in, and tried to share my truth with them, but all they REALLY want is to unload their Bible on you. then job is done!

there is a Mormon temple on the main road not far from where i live. it was quite a minimilaist building surrounded with minimilist lawns. they now have put a fence round it.....they've done same with the Jehovas Witness temple--which used to be a cinema--in a nearby village

i consider mormonism to be yet another strain of the patriarchy. when you see the picture list of their 'prophets' it looks like a 1950s list of corporate executives. grim, and completely without any pagan exuberance...colour, flair, creativity, wildness. just a bunch of grim-lookin grey men