US citizen murdered by government without trial

[S.A.M.]

How do we know what level of examination the evidence would stand up to, when we are denied access to it?

Bingo!

Lacks the credibility with whom? You? The international community? The US electorate? What are the implications of this lack of credibility?

With anyone who has more than one brain cell, in my opinion. Implications? Currently, I think its upto American citizens to file a claim of war crimes against the US government in the Hague. After all, they are now being targeted by their own government without due process based on secret "evidence" to which they have no access.

 

[quadraphonics]

Bingo!

So your basic complaint is a procedural one, then. Not that this particular outcome was necessarily objectionable, but that the procedure for reaching such a decision presents too much danger if not made more transparent and accountable?

With anyone who has more than one brain cell, in my opinion.

That opinion implies a very large number of high-functioning adults operating on single brain cells. Which seems improbable.

How do you expect to get anywhere if you refuse to seriously address those who disagree?

Implications? Currently, I think its upto American citizens to file a claim of war crimes against the US government in the Hague.

I don't think there's any mechanism through which a US citizen can file a claim of war crimes against the US government in the Hague. No?

But there are mechanisms through which US citizens can file claims against the US government in the US Supreme Court - which is a separate power from the Executive branch executing these attacks and advancing the justifications in question, for exactly this reason. Hence the uptick in legal interest in drone strikes, now that one of the targets was a US citizen. And the absence of corresponding discursive interest in the other non-US-citizens targetted and killed in the exact same strike.

After all, they are now being targeted by their own government without due process based on secret "evidence" to which they have no access.

Sounds like exactly the kind of thing that the US constitution included a co-equal judicial branch to address...

 

[Believe]

Is there anyone here who is in America that is worried about this?

 

[S.A.M.]

I don't think there's any mechanism through which a US citizen can file a claim of war crimes against the US government in the Hague. No?

Why not? Who can file if not the victims? They can form a pan-national prosecution with the Iraqis and Afghanis

In 2002, the International Criminal Court (ICC) was established in The Hague (Netherlands) and the Rome Statute provides for the ICC to have jurisdiction over genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes. The definition of what is a "crime against humanity" for ICC proceedings has significantly broadened from its original legal definition or that used by the UN,[16] and Article 7 of the treaty stated that:

For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:[17]

(a) Murder;
(b) Extermination;
(c) Enslavement;
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
(f) Torture;
(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
(j) The crime of apartheid;
(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

 

[adoucette]

Except nothing was done in Yemen (or Iraq or Afgan) that was "committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population".

Arthur

 

[S.A.M.]

Except nothing was done in Yemen (or Iraq or Afgan) that was "committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population".

Arthur

You've obviously slept through the drone attacks on Yemeni civilians by Americans through the last year

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-...rates-evidence-us-airstrikes-yemen-2010-12-01

Its really laughable, this war on "terror". To the rest of the world, Americans are the terrorists!

 

[GeoffP]

To the 'rest of the world' that houses actual terrorists, I guess they would be.

 

[adoucette]

You've obviously slept through the drone attacks on Yemeni civilians by Americans through the last year

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-...rates-evidence-us-airstrikes-yemen-2010-12-01

Its really laughable, this war on "terror". To the rest of the world, Americans are the terrorists!

No I didn't, but you're wrong since attacking an al-Qa’ida training camp at al-Ma’jalah, Abyan (by a cruise missile not a drone) does not equate to a "widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population".

And no SAM, the rest of the world, as evidenced by the actions of the UN, does not think we are the Terrorists.

Arthur

 

[S.A.M.]

No I didn't, but you're wrong since attacking an al-Qa’ida training camp at al-Ma’jalah, Abyan (by a cruise missile not a drone) does not equate to a "widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population".

And no SAM, the rest of the world, as evidenced by the actions of the UN, does not think we are the Terrorists.

Arthur

Ever wonder why the US is fighting on the side of the Islamic militants in Libya and bombing them in Yemen? Huh?

Yemenis are bewildered at the stance of the Obama administration in light of Saleh’s chicanery. Secretary Gates has repeatedly stated that the Saleh regime is an important partner to the US and the protests are an internal affair. At the same time, the US Ambassador in Sanaa is lobbying to keep Saleh’s sons and nephews in charge of the counter-terror units. A former Foreign Minister, Abdullah al Asnag, long in exile, detailed the regime’s duplicity from the USS Cole bombing to the 2010 US airstrikes in Yemen. Watan, the Coalition of Women for Social Peace, appealed directly to the American people yesterday,

Our stance depends on evidences proved that Selah is using al-Qaeda, and the American war against terrorism to receive generous financial support, and intensive training for the Special Forces, Central Security, and National Security, which all headed by his son and his nephews and use to suppress the Yemeni for more than a decade.

The last American stance, which was expressed by Robert Gates, reinforces our belief that the U.S. government is not serious in fighting terrorism and promoting democracy. The money is used in the name of the American people and the fight against terrorism to support dictatorial regimes and Al-Qaeda, against nations’ choices and demands for democracy. Yemen comes at the forefront of these nations.

American people, the hands of Yemeni people who have been in the streets in a peaceful revolution since two months, still rose demanding the elimination of the dictatorial regime and establish a modern civil state. However these hands are facing your weapons, your money, and the shameful attitude of your government, which we know that they do not reflect the spirit of the American nation which based on principles of freedom and human dignity.

Lift up your hands against your government that on your behalf and via your money is supporting the repression of peoples, democracy and peace.​

You're just hired thugs for dictators.

 

[spidergoat]

Is the Libyan uprising actually an Islamic theocratic revolution?

 

[Believe]

Ever wonder why the US is fighting on the side of the Islamic militants in Libya and bombing them in Yemen? Huh?



You're just hired thugs for dictators.

Why do you hate America so much? Did we deny you a visa or something? You bring up every wild conspiracy theory you can in your posts (on multiple different threads over and over) to try to demonize us. It reeks of jealously and misplace anger.

I dub thee America basher.

Don't get me wrong, there are many, many things wrong with America but you're way off base. Ever notice how the nobody seems to care about things that you get all up in arms about? There are other bigger fish to fry.

In this case you have some kind of issue with the understanding the judicial system and the military are SEPARATE FOR A REASON. The reason being that military commanders need to be able to make snap decisions without having to cut through a ton of red tape. Sometimes they are wrong, and depending on severity of it they may be punished later. They also do not need someone who doesn't understand WAR scrutinizing their every decision and countermanding their orders.

You do understand that this attack was rather expensive don't you? The drone itself costs a lot of money in upkeep and hellfire missiles are definitely not free. The military has better things to do with its money (being the cheep asses that they are) then kill a random U.S. citizen for no reason. Just because they don't share 100% of those reasons with YOU or the general public does not mean that they are not there.

 

[RedRabbit]

Would a SEAL team have been cheaper then?

 

[Believe]

Would a SEAL team have been cheaper then?

IDK, I actually thought about this a lot and IDK. I would guess that a human life > a drone life (definitely in my eyes but I'm not a military general with a war to win) so in that case no, but that only applies if someone dies (seal or drone). I would think that the drone in the air would less likely to get hurt then the seal on the ground though so I would have to say no.

 

[S.A.M.]

Is the Libyan uprising actually an Islamic theocratic revolution?

Depends on how good an arse kisser the dictator is. In Bahrain and Yemen for example, the leaders have their lips firmly attached to American backsides, so their Shia rebels are either Al Qaeda or Iran and violently suppressed with American arms even as they try non-violently to bring down their dictators. In Libya and Syria, the dictators won't play ball, so their Sunni fundamentalists are "freedom fighters" - even though the Libyans have fought the US occupation in Iraq and the Syrians are supporters of the Palestinian Hamas - so US arms are either being presented to the "rebels" or NATO is bombing their dictators for them.

Why do you hate America so much? Did we deny you a visa or something? You bring up every wild conspiracy theory you can in your posts (on multiple different threads over and over) to try to demonize us. It reeks of jealously and misplace anger.

I dub thee America basher.

Don't get me wrong, there are many, many things wrong with America but you're way off base. Ever notice how the nobody seems to care about things that you get all up in arms about? There are other bigger fish to fry.

In this case you have some kind of issue with the understanding the judicial system and the military are SEPARATE FOR A REASON. The reason being that military commanders need to be able to make snap decisions without having to cut through a ton of red tape. Sometimes they are wrong, and depending on severity of it they may be punished later. They also do not need someone who doesn't understand WAR scrutinizing their every decision and countermanding their orders.

You do understand that this attack was rather expensive don't you? The drone itself costs a lot of money in upkeep and hellfire missiles are definitely not free. The military has better things to do with its money (being the cheep asses that they are) then kill a random U.S. citizen for no reason. Just because they don't share 100% of those reasons with YOU or the general public does not mean that they are not there.

I just can't stand terrorists. The only light at the end of the tunnel is that terrorism is so expensive a business to maintain that Americans will run out of money before they bomb the entire world to satisfy their greed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3lmNAVwCqoQ#!

 

[adoucette]

I just can't stand terrorists.

We know, the problem is you think Americans are Terrorists.

The only light at the end of the tunnel is that terrorism is so expensive a business to maintain that Americans will run out of money before they bomb the entire world to satisfy their greed

Greed?

Now you are just making BS up.

Killing terrorists is an expensive proposition with no payback.

And we don't bomb the entire world, indeed our efforts are limited and focused on those who would kill you to impose their fundamentalist views and then deny you equal rights because of your gender.

Arthur

 

[S.A.M.]

We know, the problem is you think Americans are Terrorists.




Greed?

Now you are just making BS up.

Killing terrorists is an expensive proposition with no payback.

And we don't bomb the entire world, indeed our efforts are limited and focused on those who would kill you to impose their fundamentalist views and then deny you equal rights because of your gender.

Arthur

The White Man's burden should be left where it belongs. And it may have skipped your notice, but that was the women of Yemen addressing Americans who should at least pretend to listen to them considering they are using those women to justify their war crimes

 

[GeoffP]

Hmm. Which women do the religious supremacists use to justify their war crimes?

 

[adoucette]

The White Man's burden should be left where it belongs. And it may have skipped your notice, but that was the women of Yemen addressing Americans who should at least pretend to listen to them considering they are using those women to justify their war crimes

Just more BS SAM, our war with Al Qaeda has to do with their attacks and killing Americans.

A bonus is that in doing so we help to rid the world of fundamentalist assholes.

Arthur

 

[Believe]

Depends on how good an arse kisser the dictator is. In Bahrain and Yemen for example, the leaders have their lips firmly attached to American backsides, so their Shia rebels are either Al Qaeda or Iran and violently suppressed with American arms even as they try non-violently to bring down their dictators. In Libya and Syria, the dictators won't play ball, so their Sunni fundamentalists are "freedom fighters" - even though the Libyans have fought the US occupation in Iraq and the Syrians are supporters of the Palestinian Hamas - so US arms are either being presented to the "rebels" or NATO is bombing their dictators for them.



I just can't stand terrorists. The only light at the end of the tunnel is that terrorism is so expensive a business to maintain that Americans will run out of money before they bomb the entire world to satisfy their greed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3lmNAVwCqoQ#!

Terrorists? Please.

You play pretty fast and lose with your definitions of words. You may want to double check terrorist. As Inigo Montoya once said, "I do not think that word means what you think it means".

 

[Believe]

The White Man's burden should be left where it belongs. And it may have skipped your notice, but that was the women of Yemen addressing Americans who should at least pretend to listen to them considering they are using those women to justify their war crimes

How many women does this group your quoting represent exactly,10, 50, 100 because they don't really explain that do they? It could 3 people for all you know.