Unto Others?
- Thread starter Carcano
- Start date
What?
Are you asking if that little pearl of wisdom is a good one? Because I'd say it is. People, both religious and atheist alike, forget just how much can be learned from religious texts. If read as a guideline for living a good, moral life, they can be really helpful for those who need the help.
Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you is as wise a statement as has ever been made. It just means that you would should treat people well, because you would want them to treat you well.
Are you asking if that little pearl of wisdom is a good one? Because I'd say it is. People, both religious and atheist alike, forget just how much can be learned from religious texts. If read as a guideline for living a good, moral life, they can be really helpful for those who need the help.
Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you is as wise a statement as has ever been made. It just means that you would should treat people well, because you would want them to treat you well.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
What 'well' means is different to different people. Thats why I oppose this simplistic slogan.
I can think of an almost unlimited number of cases where I would not want what others want for themselves.
You're just splitting hairs now. The message in the verse is simple, and it is meant to teach people to just be kind to others. Basically, don't do bad things to people, because you wouldn't want bad things done to you.
If you want to argue semantics, you're reading too much into it. It's just a basic ideal that people should generally follow. Actually, most people DO follow it, regardless of if they've seen it written or not.
If you want to argue semantics, you're reading too much into it. It's just a basic ideal that people should generally follow. Actually, most people DO follow it, regardless of if they've seen it written or not.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Again, the simplicity of the verse is precisely its problem.
The words 'kind' and 'bad' are defined by a varible standard according to the individual.
Not so much, Carcano. There are basic things that every society and culture hold as polite, and as good and kind. It's just talking about basic goodness here, not getting into detail.
Do you honestly believe that the idea of kindness various so greatly from person to person? Because it doesn't.
Do you honestly believe that the idea of kindness various so greatly from person to person? Because it doesn't.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Ah, but the verse doesnt speak of politeness or kindness.
It simply states that you should give whatever you want to get...regardless of the varible values and specifics according to the individual.
Talk about completely missing the point...
Rather than saying "Be kind to others," the saying was put into a perspective that the people reading it would most closely relate: only treat others as you would want to be treated. That covers the whole shebang; from simple acts of kindness to selfless acts of charity.
Of course, you're trying to say that it is a bad example for the minority of sadists out there who want to be shouted at when the fuck up, or the people who see no issue with kicking Granny in the ass. But those people are the minority, friend, and this message wouldn't effect them regardless.
And of all the things in the bible, this is what you see as a problem? Please. That's ridiculous. There is no vast spectrum of opinion when it comes to this...there are standards of what it means to be treated well, and are pretty much universal.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
There are many problems with the Bible and the people who wrote it...there is not only a wealth of scientific ignorance, but vast ethical problems as well.
All of which underscores the point that values are not universal throughout history or even the world as it is today. A point which renders the verse simplistically absurb.
Does Jesus treat others as he would like for himself? Sometimes he does...with the rest of his time spent on condemning most of humanity to the abyss...the fire that can never be quenched.
Well, of course! The Bible was written by Man, and is full of their personal agendas. But there are also some valuable pearls of wisdom within that text--as in, good fundamental basics on how to live a good life. Even some of the Commandments are solid...like, the idea that you shouldn't kill another human being!
It's obvious that values are not universal...I'm sorry if I said that, because it is factually false. But at the same time, there are universal basics. Most people in the world want to be treated well, do they not? It means that you should treat others well, but rather than leaving the subjective and vague notions of "well" and "kind" and "good" up for interpretation, it simply puts the verse in a simple, universal terminology that could be understood by all for the rest of time.
I find it hysterical (and a bit sad) that you could find any fault in this verse. I really do. I'm not religious, nor do I think that the Bible should be regarded in the way that it is...but I think that this verse is an example of the good values that can be found in it. Treating others as you would want to be treated is an excellent way to lead your life.
Yet, if you do unto others what you want others to do unto you, then others will know what you want and be able to give it. If you do something you believe in, to others, then they will be able to see if it is good or not by their own principles, why should you not do to others what you want others to do to you? What would be the reason? If it is plainly wrong what you want others to do to you, then you will get the reaction appropriatly, since they don't want you to do that unto them.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Again, this is not about what words you wish Jesus had chosen, but what the verse actually states...and whether or not it is valid as stated.
And I have little reason to complain, seeing as I have similiar thoughts on your own understanding...esp in light of the fact that you seem to be all in favour of torturing military prisoners (see CIA thread).
Not exactly as you would want to be treated? Or do the rules change depending on those varible conditions I mentioned a few posts back?
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Youve got it the wrong way round, its where you do unto others, or rather 'treat' others in a manner in which you feel you would want to be treated - appropriate to specfic situation of course.
Also the golden rule isnt specific to chrsitianty, its a rule arrived at by countless different cultures in various points of human history, its just a basic bit of common sense to live by, nothing more nothing less.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
No, Ive got it both ways around...what applies in one direction also applies in the opposite.
You know damn well that verse was simple for a reason--it was meant to be a general guideline, not a rule. And not specific to every imaginable circumstance. But it wasn't talking about every circumstance...just in general. Apparently, you can't grasp that. But at the end of the day, I can't argue with your hatred for the Bible, because it is a crock of shit, for the most part.
But about the CIA tortures...YES, WE SHOULD TORTURE TERRORISTS. How could you think that they deserve basic human rights?
My take on it is like this: Those who are weak, and those who are peaceful, should be both protected and defended. But when you become aggressive--as the terrorists have--then only the strong should survive. And remember, in the case of the terrorists, they brought it upon themselves. If they had not acted in the way they have, then they wouldn't be getting tortured.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Aye, so according to you the verse means...Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, unless JDawg says they are terrorists. Then you may torture them into confessing...
Your vision of justice would fit right in, a few centuries ago in coloinial America. I can just picture you in Pilgrim garb, presiding over the bi-annual witch-dunking!
Your vision of justice would fit right in, a few centuries ago in coloinial America. I can just picture you in Pilgrim garb, presiding over the bi-annual witch-dunking!
The thing about "Do unto...." is that it's a generality, a guideline for interacting with normal, usual, regular, fellow humans. It's not meant to be a rule on how to conduct war against an attacking force or somesuch!
As a normal, everyday guide, it's the best that's ever been conceived. If everyone were to follow it, the world would be a better place in which to live.
But, .....you will notice how many people are so willing to argue about it, to tear it apart, to give silly-assed examples, .......for their own selfish interests? I think that says a lot about the human race, don't you?
Baron Max
As a normal, everyday guide, it's the best that's ever been conceived. If everyone were to follow it, the world would be a better place in which to live.
But, .....you will notice how many people are so willing to argue about it, to tear it apart, to give silly-assed examples, .......for their own selfish interests? I think that says a lot about the human race, don't you?
Baron Max
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
What isnt normal, usual and regular doesnt just exist externally, it exists everywhere within every generation of humanity.
Sure. But if you think that you can create a law/rule to cover every single situation that might ever occur, in any family, in any society, in any part of the world, then you're sadly mistaken ......and worse, you're giving credence to those who'd do "wrong" things, using your excuses to do it.
Baron Max