understanding pain

F

flaming june

Registered Member
what is pain? i dont understand it. why do we pull away to it? what makes us need to keep ourselves from it? i don't understand. and dont say that its because it "hurts" because thats what i don't understand. any comments?
 
Our action towards pain has to do with the brain. Cant remember what happens...try studying the nervous system. Its in there.
 
On a physiological level pain is caused by the triggering of groups of sensory neurons. They fire when tissue bocomes damaged, or is about to get damaged.
The signal from the sensory cells causes an instinctive retraction. Also, a signal goes to the primary sensory cortex in the brain. this information is used for example to learn that open fire or doors are not things to walk into.

On another level: the actual sensation of pain is a problem. We may understand how the neuronal systems associated with pain function, but how that causes the sensation of pain remains a mystery. Some have tried to solve the problem, but -to my opinion- without succes. The most famous is Dennett's "Consciousness Explained" (1991).
The problem was initially brought up by René Descartes. He wondered how the mind and the body could coincide. How can an immaterial mind be synchronized with a material body? His solution was hopelessly wrong. He thought that in the pineal gland some strange connection between the two worlds could be found.
His type of answer is Dualism: assume that there are in fact two types of wirlds -an immaterial one and a metarial one.
Materialsim, either denies the existence of the world of qualia (ie the immaterial world of sensations) or that the sensations are an artefact of the neuronal processes. Recently a more positive stream of materialism has come to be: it holds that sensations are emergent properties of the neuronal processes. This new way of thinking is quite abstract and I cannot easily explain it in a few words.

If you want to know more, I suggest you read the excellent collection of easy-to-read and highly influential articles on the topic of the mind-body problem: The Mind's Eye (1981) by D.R. Hofstadter and D.C. Dennett.
 
I know this is going to sound stupid, pain is the bodys' way of telling you, "don't do that" or "get some help".

Why just the body? Why shouldn't the brain, the control center of the body, not also feel pain? While it is housed within an excellent structure to protect it complete with "antishock" cushion, why doesn't it feel pain? The body recognises the importance of the brain in everyother way. From a blood barrier to protect it from blood borne pathegens to shutting down other parts to ensure that it would continue to recieve blood and food. You would think the body would also evolve a pain protection system for the most critical part.

Welcome to sciforums, flaming june.
 
are you speaking about physical pain or emotional - or both? could you please clairify...then, i think, i'd be better equipped to answer this intriguing question..
 
WHY THE F*CK is this topic moved to biology?
There has not come one good insight from biology or neurology in the quest of understanding human consciousness.
I get really pissed by this. I have a master's degree in this topic. and I want my share of respect now damnit!
 
OrangePumkins,
we already have a psychology forum! the reason why you do not see me there much, despite my degree in psychology, is that there I get shitted on by people who think that psychology is either NewAge babbling or applied biology.
But there IS a psychology forum by the name "human science"
 
the being who did that is a mod
it is not in your power to move anything around here;) :p
 
OrangePumkins,
we already have a psychology forum! the reason why you do not see me there much, despite my degree in psychology, is that there I get shitted on by people who think that psychology is either NewAge babbling or applied biology.
But there IS a psychology forum by the name "human science
Click to expand...



hee hee...no, i mean a REAL psychology forum.


btw...what IS the deal with that new-age babble?? when i try to follow its "logic" i find it leaves me with a ringing in my ears and a twitch in my eye.
 
I am still a magician in training. You know Merlijn lived backwards in time (well: Thomas White version of the Arthurian Legend is like that :p) So I am getting younger in your eyes.
No I cannot move it back.
 
Merljin

then, in your youth my eyes are growing older..

p.s. i've read a bit about merlin..:)


pps.

copper is restless until it becomes gold ~ Eckhart
 
Thanks Pumpkins.
But, I am afraid it has it be tortured before it turns gold... or did I remember wrong.
 
well, on one hand you could say "tortured" ...yet, on the other hand you might say "refined"...depends on which hand is holding the fire, i guess...
 
Yes, without the feeling of pain you would soon be dead. Pain is an evolutionary method in our physiology that tells us that something is wrong and has to be avoided or cured. Can you imagine accidently placing your hand on your hot stove and not feeling the pain from the heat? If you were sick and did not feel a discomfort an continued to exert yourself rather than rest, how would your sickness ever be cured. Your health would just get worse. If you accidently cut yourselg and felt no pain you might bleed to death.
 
I once cut my leg (fell from a bike on a metal something) to the bone (I could see it and it was a long cut) and interestingly I felt no pain. I mean, I usually feel pain, but I don't know.. maybe it was a nervous shock or something, but it just felt funny. Even when I got to hospital to sew it didn't hurt.
But if it was shock then it was unconscious or something, because I was very calm with no panic.

Oh and more on pain.. I practice Taekwon-Do and we were training ourselves releasing from grabbing. So there is a movement when I grab someone by clothes and he gets free by point-pressing on my thumbs, i.e., the opponent releases them because of pain, but no matter who tried to do that on me - nothing worked. I felt only pressure and no pain. Even our senior black belt instructor and heavy weight kick boxing champion couldn't do anything.
A pity though. that grab is quite useless in real combat, so I don't use it.

Oh and after years of practice we've (old students) have noticed that we no longer feel pain as the rest, especially the new students. It's just something we've become to ignore unconsciously, or maybe our muscular structure is more sturdy, or maybe both.
 
Once I was involved in an automobile accident that was very bad. Someone hit me that ran a red light and my car flipped a few times and theirs was extremely damaged in the front end. I felt pain in my head and blood was running down my face but I heard a baby crying so without realizing my pain any longer I pushed my way out of the destroyed car and went to the other car. There was a baby inside and was sort of trapped and the parent was unconcious. I pulled the babt out then went back for the parent. The car had gas pouring from the broken fuel pump for the electric fuel pump didn't shut off. The car could have caught on fire at any time and my head was still extremely in pain. After I rescued them I collapsed and woke up in the hospital. I had split my skull open,lost over 2 pints of blood and required 25 stiches to close the wound. You can go through allot of pain before you black out as I'm living proof of that.
 
flaming june said:
what is pain? i dont understand it. why do we pull away to it? what makes us need to keep ourselves from it? i don't understand. and dont say that its because it "hurts" because thats what i don't understand. any comments?
Click to expand...

pain it a nervous response like any other. you eat ice cream, it feels cold. temperature receptors are sending a signal, a stream of data to your brain and your brain associates it with the coldcept of cold. it tastes nice - flavour sensors are sending a stream of data to your brain which your brain interprets in a certain way. you like some things, you dislike others.

pain is also just a stream of data from certain receptors. your brain responds to it in a certain way. most people respond in a way that makes them stop the data flow, if possible - it's generally construed as unpleasant. some people like pain, and actively seek it. other people can ignore pain or switch their brain off to the flow of data.

think about terminator 2, the arnie film. the kid says to arnie "does it hurt?" and arnie says "i sense injury. the data could be called pain"

pain is no different to smelling a nice perfume - sensors delivering electrical signals to your brain. thinking about why you respond to the stimulus in the way that you do will help you understand why something "hurts"
 
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