Just wondering what xianity and islam think about the possibility of life on other planets. Has any religious people here seen any unusual things in the sky that they can't explain? What do you think about those cool crop circles? Can you just rationalize it away as just another creation of god?
UFO's and religion
- Thread starter mario
- Start date
UFO'S and religion are related. Ufo's have replaced old religion for many people with a belief of superior aliens that would save us from ourselves. Ever since the advent of nuclear weapons man has been afraid of his own survival, the average man having lost his belief in an old man in the sky watching us now believes that aliens are watcing over us ready to step in to save us from destruction.
Believing in a god or in aliens, now where is the big difference? Old age and new age beliefs, they are all the same, humans search for some higher being to rescue/help them. They should start to believe in themself first. Making this world better on their own. Anyway, why are aliens bound to be superior. After all, aliens may be just on a lower evolutionary stadium than we.
It is just a human fault to believe in such things.
It is just a human fault to believe in such things.
mario said:
UFOs and Space Shuttles were explicitly mentioned in the Noble Quran!
Let us look at the following Noble Verses from the Noble Quran:
"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: and He has power to gather them together when He wills. (The Noble Quran, 42:29)"
This Noble Verse was forwarded to me by brother Frank (www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com), who have embraced Islam; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
As we see, "through them" includes the living creatures in both the Universe (heavens) and the earth. Please visit: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7906/ for more details and proofs.
Also, "gather them together when He wills" seems to suggest that Allah Almighty would allow communication, finding and meeting with those scattered creations in the Universe (UFOs in other words) when "He wills".
Allah Almighty clearly talked about what we call today "space shuttles":
"O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass! (The Noble Quran, 55:33)"
When Allah Almighty revealed to Prophet the Noble Quran 1500 years ago, there were no flying air planes or man-made objects invented. Yet Allah Almighty talked about humans passing the zones of heavens by saying "If it be ye can pass....., pass ye! not without authority" What is that authority? It is the Will of Allah Almighty of course, and the physical "space shuttles".
"Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except God, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment). (The Noble Quran, 27:65)"
"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant. He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
Noble Verses 27:65 and 19:93-96 clearly suggest that there are beings existing in the Universe in places other than earth.
Source: http://www.answering-christianity.com/ufo.htm
UFO's certainly have a religious connection. In fact according to a report, UFO's have a key-role in establishing religon on Earth. Although, the idea the entire UFO phenomena, is a religion itself, is quite simply absurd; perpetuated by ignorant and foolish skeptics who cannot come to terms with ETI. When the existence of ETI, and them getting here, is scientifically feasible. It's as natural as a child being born or a star being born. In such a vast universe, do you think, there are only humans? Do you think, if there is a God, he created countless light years of universe, and just put life in one part of it?
In fact a lot of religion, especially Hinduism and Christianity, can be explained with the ETI factor.
In fact a lot of religion, especially Hinduism and Christianity, can be explained with the ETI factor.
Fact: The universe is vast.
Fact: The planet Earth has life on it.
ergo: The universe is teeming with life......wrong
We have no evidence so far, just speculation that a vast universe contains many life forms including ETI.If I was a betting man then I would bet in favor of life existing throughout the universe but without proof the topic remains in the realm of speculation.
Fact: The universe is vast, infinite perhaps
Fact: Planet Earth has life on it
Fact: There are millions of stars in our galaxy that have the prerequisites for supporting life - and there are billions of stars in our universe for the same.
Fact: Life can adapt to many conditions, however extreme
Fact: extraterrestrial life is mathmatically certain
Therefore, as a logical person, I'll go with the odds of there being ETI. While you can wallow in the realms of ignorance.
Fact: Planet Earth has life on it
Fact: There are millions of stars in our galaxy that have the prerequisites for supporting life - and there are billions of stars in our universe for the same.
Fact: Life can adapt to many conditions, however extreme
Fact: extraterrestrial life is mathmatically certain
Therefore, as a logical person, I'll go with the odds of there being ETI. While you can wallow in the realms of ignorance.
The Drake Equation was developed in 1961 by Dr. Frank Drake. It can determine how many possible intelligent, communicating civilizations there are in our galaxy.
Nc = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL
The equation represents the following:
N* represents the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy
Question: How many stars are in the Milky Way Galaxy?
Answer: Current estimates are 200 to 400 billion.
fp is the fraction of stars that have planets around them
Question: What percentage of stars have planetary systems?
Answer: Current estimates range from 20% to 50%.
ne number of planets per star that are capable of sustaining life
Question: For each star that has a planetary system, how many planets are capable of sustaining life?
Answer: estimates range from 1 to 2.
fl is the fraction of planets in ne where life evolves
Question: On what percentage of the planets that are capable of sustaining life does life actually evolve?
Answer: Current estimates are 100% (where life can evolve it will) .
fi is the fraction of fl where intelligent life evolves
Question: On the planets where life does evolve, what percentage evolves intelligent life?
Answer: Estimates are 50% .
fc is the fraction of fi that communicate
Question: What percentage of intelligent life forms have the means and the desire to communicate?
Answer: 10% to 20%
fL is fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations may survive
Question: For each civilization that does communicate, for what fraction of the planet's life does the civilization survive?
Answer: This is the most vague question. Using the Earth as our model, the expected lifetime of our Solar System is approximately 10 billion years. Already communication by radio has been for less than 100 years. How long can our civilization survive without destroy ourselves as some predict or will we overcome our problems and survive indefinately? If doomsday came today this figure would be 1/100,000,000th. If we survive for 10,000 more years this figure would be 1/1,000,000th.
When all of these variables are multiplied, we get:
Mikey if any of those factors approach zero the results approach zero. It's still speculation without proof.
Nc = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL
The equation represents the following:
N* represents the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy
Question: How many stars are in the Milky Way Galaxy?
Answer: Current estimates are 200 to 400 billion.
fp is the fraction of stars that have planets around them
Question: What percentage of stars have planetary systems?
Answer: Current estimates range from 20% to 50%.
ne number of planets per star that are capable of sustaining life
Question: For each star that has a planetary system, how many planets are capable of sustaining life?
Answer: estimates range from 1 to 2.
fl is the fraction of planets in ne where life evolves
Question: On what percentage of the planets that are capable of sustaining life does life actually evolve?
Answer: Current estimates are 100% (where life can evolve it will) .
fi is the fraction of fl where intelligent life evolves
Question: On the planets where life does evolve, what percentage evolves intelligent life?
Answer: Estimates are 50% .
fc is the fraction of fi that communicate
Question: What percentage of intelligent life forms have the means and the desire to communicate?
Answer: 10% to 20%
fL is fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations may survive
Question: For each civilization that does communicate, for what fraction of the planet's life does the civilization survive?
Answer: This is the most vague question. Using the Earth as our model, the expected lifetime of our Solar System is approximately 10 billion years. Already communication by radio has been for less than 100 years. How long can our civilization survive without destroy ourselves as some predict or will we overcome our problems and survive indefinately? If doomsday came today this figure would be 1/100,000,000th. If we survive for 10,000 more years this figure would be 1/1,000,000th.
When all of these variables are multiplied, we get:
Mikey if any of those factors approach zero the results approach zero. It's still speculation without proof.
Actually it is speculation on your part that one of those approach zero 
Do you have proof of that?
According to the Drake equation and current estimates(that you mentioned) one galaxy would contain 1000 intelligent species.
If you consider the vast universe, even if the odds of life(which they're not) were 1 in 10 trillion galaxies, there would still be 7 billion instances of intelligent life. I'm sorry that I do not support your pessimism, that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. To me that reeks of stupidity
Life is just a natural stage in evolution. Get over it. It's not a miracle.
Do you have proof of that?According to the Drake equation and current estimates(that you mentioned) one galaxy would contain 1000 intelligent species.
If you consider the vast universe, even if the odds of life(which they're not) were 1 in 10 trillion galaxies, there would still be 7 billion instances of intelligent life. I'm sorry that I do not support your pessimism, that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. To me that reeks of stupidity
Life is just a natural stage in evolution. Get over it. It's not a miracle.
No, I dont have proof one way or another.
Pure speculation, no hard evidence.
Perhaps our perception of reality is different. You are overly optimistic basing your estimates on supposition where as I'm pessimistic waiting for further solid evidence to support such aview.
Life may be common in the universe but that's a far cry from an intelligent life form like man. Remember Dynosaurs ruled the Earth for hundreds of million of years and if it wasnt for some catastrophic event we may not exist.
Dont get me wrong Mikey, I would like to know that the're others out there just like you and I even took part in the SETI internet program, it's just I'm a bit more cautious in supporting extra-ordinary events.
Hmm, if life has evolved, then the next logical stage, is intelligent life my friend. Had the dinosaurs involved further that may have evolved into an intelligent species. According to the latest scientific studies, intelligent life could take as little as 10 million years to evolve from the moment there is life.
I don't think you understand, that as life is a natural stage in evolution, so is intelligent life. Intelligence is a survivial multiplier.
I know you are being cautious, but you're being cautious to the point of sheer pessimism - the fact that you call ETI extraordinary, is a sample of that.
Now I am not being optimisic at all. If I was being optimistic, I would say there is 10 billion ETI in the galaxy. Am I saying that? No. However, current estimates do suggest there is potential for more life in our galaxy, 1000 instances at least. Therefore, I am being logical by thinking there is at least one more instance of intelligent life in our galaxy.
Now considering that, and then considering all the evidence of their visitations to us, I am being sensible by accepting their existence. Perhaps you should also.
crazymikey said:
No... it isn't.
crazymikey said:
Why? There are no other models with which to compare since the sample size is one species, so how could anyone make that prediction?
crazymikey said:
What scientific studies do you refer to. I'd like a citation please.
crazymikey said:
Again, the sample size for that kind of statement is one. It is impossible to do more than hypothesize that intelligence is a natural stage in evolution.
crazymikey said:
Another sample size=1 problem. How, then, do you account for the number of chickens on the planet? There are almost 6 billion alive at any given moment. What about cock-roaches? There are over 4,000 known species and fossilized cockroaches have been found in strata dated to 300 mya. There are plenty of species that have survived quite well and will likely outlive our own.
crazymikey said:
Let's hope sensibilities like your own are the a rarity, based upon the pseudoscience dribble above.