True Christian Dilemmas

[TW Scott]

Well this one truly happened.

The guy the first time I heard of him was on the radio. He won the "having the most balls" award of that radio station, he sawed his arm off with a pocket knife, the second guy was a glimber who also sawed his arm off with a pocket knife, he had been cought between a wedge of rock, and couldn't scape, "climbing alone is a bitch" anyhow I saw that one on TV.

I asked the question because it's about survival, a deeply devoted christian would he, pray, and pray for someone or god to save their life, since they have so much faith and all, do they expect a miracle, or would they take the initiative to "survive and save themselves" like these two gents did? What would a true christian do? It's not about geting into heaven, it's about having the balls to go through with such a task, to save oneself.

Actually i probably would have prayed and then did the idea that popped inot my mind as God's answer. Praying is good, but you gotta use what God sends you. Of course I probably also waited a few days befopre i sawed the limb off, but I got some body fat to keep me alive.

 

[Adstar]

Our friend Adstar says that true Christians do not fight wars. It got me to thinking about putting a true Christian in certain situations just to see what they should do.

What should truly good Christians do if.......

Your the first person to call me friend in here PE Thank you.



1. they come upon a grown man raping an infant and there is a loaded gun within reach

Grab the gun and threaten the man with death (doing ones best to sound determined enough the do it) if he does not cease.

If he calls my bluff, throw the gun as far away as i can and try to pull the man off the infant and grab the infant and run. Of course if i fail then i fail.



2. they are threatened by death to convert to another religion.

Refuse. If they kill me then i get an "early mark" to be with Jesus.



3. they are sent pictures of their top church official diddling the choir boys

Well i do not belong to a church so it does no apply. If anyone was abusing children i would report it to the authorities.


4. they come upon a person who identifies himself as Jesus

try to engage the man in a discussion on the matter to find out His mental state. If he is sane use scripture to show him that he cannot be Jesus. If he is insane let him be.


5. they believe their prayers saved a person's life and that person goes on to later murder someone

No problems. Just because someone is brought back to life does not mean they are transformed into a state of sinlessness.



6. they find a wallet full of money that belongs to a known satanist


Hand it into the authorities.



7. they discover their boss is an atheist

Seek to share the gospel with them.



8. they donate a body part that ends up in a Muslim or Jew

No worries, We are to love our enemies. Donating to ones enemy is a loving thing to do.



9. their kids want to marry someone from a different race.

No worries. All men are created equal in the eyes of God. I am a mixed mongrel myself.



10. the homosexual who moves in next door wants to join their church

Well i do not have a church as such but i would invite him to come and fellowship with me. I would share the Word of God with him.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

A true dilemma would be if an innocent christian was to be killed, but the only way to prevent it was to kill, would they do it?

No, i would not kill to save an innocent's life. The innocent would have eternity with God. A far better place then this world.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: There are no innocent Christians.

 

[Adstar]

Here is a true Christian dilema:

True story what would a chrstian do in this scenario?

A man using a bailer gets his arm cought and the bailer is pulling him in, he has two choices, die by being pulled into the bailing machine or cut off his arm.

What would a true christian do?

Godless

Cut of my arm.


I cannot see the dilema here at all.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

I'm just curious as to whether 'true' christians love satan.

jesus did say: "love thy enemy". (matt 5)

That’s a very interesting question. The best one here for a long time.

i do feel sorrow that satan will have eternity in the lake of fire. i would not wish that on anyone. But i also know that satan is doomed to the eternal lake of fire.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Accepting death over conversion seems a tough choice. Why not lie? Would not God know the lie is false, he's reading your mind anyway or He knew you would? This is a case of "in extremis". Do what you have to do to survive first. Remember the Andes' plane crash survivors, deeply religious people forced to eat their dead companions to survive. How is lying any different. Dying over religion?..... if I was God you'd be off to the furnace.

No way. There is always a slim chance the a Christian who calmly faces death in this situation may cause their killer to later think about the power of such a faith that a follower of that faith would just allow themselves to be killed like that. witnessing a martyrs death has had a converting effect on some that have taken part in their executions.

If a Christian stands up for truth and never denies The Messiah Jesus then they are in a no lose situation. If they live then they have witnessed for Jesus and called the bluff. If they are shot and killed then they are with Jesus and their killer still being alive still has the opportunity to later regret what they did and seek forgiveness through the Messiah Jesus.

To die is eternal life for a true Christian. To deny Jesus is death to a Christian.
Jesus said.

Matthew 10
33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

To deny Jesus is unthinkable to a true Christian.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If they are shot and killed then they are with Jesus and their killer still being alive still has the opportunity to later regret what they did and seek forgiveness through the Messiah Jesus.

Are you saying that the life everyone knows(this one) is valueless in the eyes of God? I know we have hashed this one over before but with the escape clause to eternal happiness that is available to every living soul on this planet, whether they be good or bad, the purpose of this physical life is moot.

 

[Adstar]

Are you saying that the life everyone knows(this one) is valueless in the eyes of God? I know we have hashed this one over before but with the escape clause to eternal happiness that is available to every living soul on this planet, whether they be good or bad, the purpose of this physical life is moot.

This physical life is not moot because it gives us a place and a time to either accept or Reject God through the use of our own free will.

One could say that life is moot after one has made the decision to accept Jesus as Messiah, but those who have accepted Jesus as Messiah do what i do. Give the message to others for them to accept or reject. So my life is not moot.

Once one believes in Jesus then the retention of their physical life is no longer a central concern. This does not mean that we become reckless and suicidal with our lives. We must never do anything to cause unnecessary danger to our lives but rely on Gods call on when our lives will end.

The only value i place on my continued existence is the value of the time to give the message of Jesus to others. Apart from that i long for death to come so that i can be free of this world.

There is an old saying i liked before i was a Christian and i still like it now:


"Gravity is an illusion the world sucks."



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Clockwood]

I just think it sad that some people think the only purpose of life is to prove ourselves to some extradimensional being. For all its pain, life is a beautyful thing that should be embraced and valued for its own sake. Enrich the world as best you can and die content.

If there is a god and he is indeed good he will not demand worship and acceptance. Live a good life, do good things, and mean well and that will be enough for him. If there is no god, you took and gave all that you can and you should have little to regret. You made the best of an untenable situation. If a god exists but he is not good, as would be any god that attempts to command your affections, perhaps an infinite abyss is better than bending yourself to his will.

 

[Adstar]

I just think it sad that some people think the only purpose of life is to prove ourselves to some extradimensional being.

Yes i think it is a tragedy also. Nothing we can do can impress God as the Bible says our righteousness is as filthy rags to God.

For all its pain, life is a beautyful thing that should be embraced and valued for its own sake. Enrich the world as best you can and die content.

Enrich people around you with love would be better. And this world is nothing compared to what will be. Once one knows that creation will be perfected one is not content with this faulty world. Its all about comparison.

If there is a god and he is indeed good he will not demand worship and acceptance.

He does require acceptance.

Live a good life, do good things, and mean well and that will be enough for him.

We cannot achieve perfection anything that falls short of perfection will not have eternity with God.

If there is no god, you took and gave all that you can and you should have little to regret. You made the best of an untenable situation.

But God is. This world is in an untenable situation. It will soon be destroyed but those who Love the truth will have a part in the perfected World.

If a god exists but he is not good, as would be any god that attempts to command your affections, perhaps an infinite abyss is better than bending yourself to his will.

No. Let me assure you the eternal lake of fire is Not a more pleasant alternative.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Godless]

Yes i think it is a tragedy also. Nothing we can do can impress God as the Bible says our righteousness is as filthy rags to God.

So why worship, that which thinks of you like shit on pasture?

 

[Clockwood]

I am generally a pretty forgiving person. Ask me for a dollar on the street and I will give you one no questions asked. Ask me to slap myself with a dead fish and I might even humor you at least once. After all, you might seem to derive some pleasure out of it and it is only a minor inconvenience and embarassment for me. Most offenses against me I can understand and accept, though some of the worse ones I will try to prevent.

But there is one thing which is ironclad for me: I am no being's slave. No man or organization or god may force obedience out of me. To try is to become my truest enemy. Merely ask, as one equal to another, and I may freely give it though.

 

[macabre]

1: Hit him in the head with the gun.
2: Die
3: Have him removed from the church and turned over to the police.
4: Test this supposed "Jesus"
5: Pray for the murderer
6: If there is a license, contactt the satanist and return the wallet.
7: Talk about God if he wants to.
8: Great, I saved someone
9: Awesome, is this person a good person?
10: Cool, do they need a ride to church?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

We must never do anything to cause unnecessary danger to our lives but rely on Gods call on when our lives will end.

So just believing God wants you to martyr yourself is the best reason for allowing yourself to be killed.

Just being Christian is an unnecessary danger. Those Christian aid workers recently freed in Iraq were obviously facing death from their captors. Not sure if you know this but one Canadian hostage was a known homosexual. This interesting tidbit was not leaked to the press in order to keep him from being killed.

Now simply going into a war zone in a predominantly muslim country is what I call 'causing unnecessary danger to their lives' for any Christian. God's call in this case was to bring in the special forces, risking everyone's life. He didn't want the homosexual to die but at some point allowed one of the American hostages to be killed. So he used trained killers to kill the killers, have the American killed but save the homosexual. Not sure of what you think God's rules are against homosexuality but from what I gather from other 'true' Christians, it is an abomination to be one.

It appears as if God was facing a dilemma on this one. He ended up rewarding stupidity and recklessness by freeing the abomination, using trained killers for a Christian cause meanwhile having a Christian wasted(poor bugger didn't want to be a martyr and was shot trying to escape). This modus operandi has been written about before, God performs premeditated kills, but in ways where His followers find Him not guilty by reason of their mental defect.

 

[Adstar]

So why worship, that which thinks of you like shit on pasture?

Because He is perfect and worthy of all worship. I do not praise God to earn salvation or goody goody credits, I praise Him because He is awesome in Love and Power and Wisdom. I agree with Him, i am a peace of shit compared to Him, a peace of shit He has Redeemed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

But there is one thing which is ironclad for me: I am no being's slave. No man or organization or god may force obedience out of me. To try is to become my truest enemy. Merely ask, as one equal to another, and I may freely give it though.

I can understand this sentiment, when it comes to men to men. But when it comes to men to God then it falls down. God is not a man, He is not a mans equal. We do not stand on equal terms with Him.

It’s a funny thing that this response to men is admirable, and it has helped me much in being saved from false religious leaders and evil politicians and their ideologies on earth. But a completely different response is needed when one faces God.

It’s a kind of split personality where one invests all their idealism and child like trust with God and all their cynicism with men. God is a safe place to invest ones idealism and the World is a safe place to invest ones cynicism.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

So just believing God wants you to martyr yourself is the best reason for allowing yourself to be killed.

Sorry i may have not been clear enough. I do not believe God wants me to be a martyr. I believe God may require me to be a martyr one day. That i should be prepared to die for my faith in Jesus at any time.

The best reason for allowing oneself to be killed is to save the person who is killing me from death at my hand. The longer those who resist God live the more time they have to repent. If i save my life by killing my enemy then i am sending a man to the eternal lake of fire. I never want to do such a thing.

Just being Christian is an unnecessary danger. Those Christian aid workers recently freed in Iraq were obviously facing death from their captors. Not sure if you know this but one Canadian hostage was a known homosexual. This interesting tidbit was not leaked to the press in order to keep him from being killed.

Well not all of those Non-resistance believing Christians peace activists where freed. One of them had his head hacked of by his true islamic captors. Yes i know one of them was a homosexual i am not sure as to his belief on the abomination of the homosexual act to God. But i do know homosexuals who believe Jesus and the Word of God and who are repentant of their desires. I hope to meet them in eternity.

Now simply going into a war zone in a predominantly muslim country is what I call 'causing unnecessary danger to their lives' for any Christian.

Well that could be argued. But if due to their witness in that islamic country just one iraqi is lead to reject islam and embrace the Messiah Jesus then the Americans death will be well worth it. Because both the American and the saved Iraqi will have eternity with God. You have to look at it from an eternal perspective. Not a life on earth perspective.

God's call in this case was to bring in the special forces, risking everyone's life. He didn't want the homosexual to die but at some point allowed one of the American hostages to be killed. So he used trained killers to kill the killers, have the American killed but save the homosexual.

Oh so you know that one of the Christian peace activists was killed ok. Those special forces and their commanders decided to do what they decided to do. The Christians did not call out to be saved The special forces guys are murders and they have sent men they have killed to the eternal lake of fire. So do not think that i am thankful for their intervention? I do not ask or seek anyone to be kill to save my life. God allowed those special forces guys to save the Christians so it was Gods will that not all the peace activists would die. Maybe God was keeping the Homosexual Christian alive out of mercy to him? But that is speculation.

Not sure of what you think God's rules are against homosexuality but from what I gather from other 'true' Christians, it is an abomination to be one.

Its an abomination to God to engage in the physical act of homosexuality. But i believe homosexuals can and will have eternity with God just as any other sinner can be saved through belief in the Messiah Jesus.

It appears as if God was facing a dilemma on this one. He ended up rewarding stupidity and recklessness by freeing the abomination, using trained killers for a Christian cause meanwhile having a Christian wasted(poor bugger didn't want to be a martyr and was shot trying to escape).

I did not know he was shot? They found his body decapitated on a garbage tip. He may have been shot but He certainly had His head hacked of.

Once again maybe God wanted the homosexual to live a longer life while the other "poor bugger" (As you call him) was ready to be with the Lord. Maybe he saw an avenue for escape and attempted it (if an avenue for escape is given and it is not taken then to stay and die can be seen as suicide by martyrdom)

This modus operandi has been written about before, God performs premeditated kills, but in ways where His followers find Him not guilty by reason of their mental defect.

Of course God kills. Every person on earth dies and that is because God wills it. God can kill whomsoever He likes however He deems it appropriate. God can never be guilty of murder because only men can murder. The Law is made By God for men. God is not under the law He gave men because The law only exists because man exists the law was design for mankind. God being perfect is not under any such laws.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Godless]

i am a peace of shit compared to Him

And fokes that's why atheist believe theist are fucking nuts :bugeye:

You are 100% right adstar, you are a peace of shit!

Godless

 

[Clockwood]

It’s a kind of split personality where one invests all their idealism and child like trust with God and all their cynicism with men. God is a safe place to invest ones idealism and the World is a safe place to invest ones cynicism.

Have him come down here and ask me then. It should not be too much to ask of a supposedly infinite being.

If I want something of a child, I do not order them or demand from them unless all other possibilities have been expended. I lower myself to their level and ask kindly if they would do this thing for me. If they will not do it purely for my sake, I will reason and try to tell them why it is necessary or desirable. I will even sometimes negotiate.

I do not simply say 'do this or I will beat you' or 'do this or I will disown you'.
I would not respect the man that would take such a path... nor do I think I would respect such a god.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Once again maybe God wanted the homosexual to live a longer life while the other "poor bugger" (As you call him) was ready to be with the Lord. Maybe he saw an avenue for escape and attempted it (if an avenue for escape is given and it is not taken then to stay and die can be seen as suicide by martyrdom)

Ever notice that in these situations, Satan gets no credit. If a Christian dies for a noble cause then it is God's will but if a Christian is killed unnecessarily then Satan had a hand in it.

Martyrdom is God's will, suicide we blame on the devil. Both acts are similar with identical results. If kidnappers hack off your head for not renouncing your religion then you get a ticket to heaven but if they hack off your head after you tell them to 'fuck off' then there are no guarantees you'll catch the heaven express.