Translation & Muslims

Kadark said:
Michael, I'm not even going to bother with you. I've posted loads of text, answering your same question at least a dozen times. If my answer doesn't satisfy you, then I guess that's too bad.

Seriously now, this is getting really boring and repetitive. If you're not going to say anything new, then I urge you to say nothing at all.
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Kadark, this is because you usually ask yourself a new question and then answer that question instead.

Which is better:
(a) A Muslim who is unhappy or
(b) an ex-Muslim that converted to Buddhism and is now very happy?

A or B?

Just a letter Kadark - that's all we asking for, just a letter :D
 
S.A.M. said:
I just ignore him when he gets tedious, he has a tendency to get pedantically boring when he does not get an answer he likes.

If its not substantiated by the Quran, I do not waste my time researching it.
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1+1=2
 
Michael said:
Islam just needs to be cleaned up and people in the secular West and secular far East simply need to be properly educated. You know, it used to be Xians had little regard for Jewish due to their forefathers having put Jesus to death. THEN it became thought of that the Jews didn't have a choice and this was all part of Gods plan. Problem solved.

Basically we get someone similar to SAM, perhaps someone who supports homosexual female Imams (I think the Chinese are in favor of this) and promote them and many of their liberal ideas. Re-interpret the Qur'an to mean there should be a secular government and a pluralistic society.

Done, problem solved.

Michael
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Well that's the rub isn't it, cleaning up Islam. As SAM has said there are reform movements, but what will they do?

Islam would have to remove all references to fighting non-believers, condemnation of non-believers, all descriptions of non-believers as cursed, descendants of pigs and monkeys and enemies of Allah intent to destroy Islam, subjugating, taxing, and humiliating non-believers, parts of the Qur'an that basically describe the art of war, breaking of treaties, Taqiyya, abrogation of less violent verses, penalties for apostasy, supremacist philosophy, eliminate the end-of-times prophesy where all remaining Jews and Christians are slaughtered, eliminate Sharia law as a theocracy to add support for democracy, remove many rules for financial transactions, eliminate jihad as a requirement, eliminate the concepts of dar al-Islam and dar al-harb, eliminate the concept of Dhimmitude, and probably many other things I can't think of off the top of my head.

When that's done, what is left? Not enough to base a religion on.
 
Now, now: there would be plenty to base a religion on. I understand that given history we're all a little bitter - and understandably so - but let's be fair.
 
S.A.M. said:
I just ignore him when he gets tedious, he has a tendency to get pedantically boring when he does not get an answer he likes.
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By paying attention to the particulars and illustrating comparative insight, I'm sure.

You note that he is, in fact, trying to give you some humanitarian wiggle room with your answers?
 
I think many Muslims would think to themselves - it'd be better to be an unhappy Muslim than a very happy Buddhist.
 
It's funny that one could read the "O unbelievers" Sura109 and then hold it up as an example of enlightened tolerance? In my mind it'd be like saying "Yup, thems Nigga's is equal - under the law anyway, under the law..." and then when someone says hey buddy that statement is inherently intolerant the person replying with "arn't chya proud of bein a nigga?

note: the person may be proud of being African - that has absolutely no bearing on the point being made.

Finally, when trying, from every angle possible to get this point across it's ended on a:

Don't mind da nigga, they aint likin it, if in you aint seeing things they's way...."
 
(Q) said:
Good luck. Sam will never allow a discussion on Islam without derailing the thread and plugging it up with propaganda.
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HEY! ease up on the girl, she might not know any better, since she's programed by islam to respond, sort of like "Hotel California".

anyway, as far as propaganda is concern, I find it strange that someone has the time to type over 28k posts in under 2 years

Join Date: 02-25-06
Posts
Total Posts: 28,900 (43.55 posts per day)
Find all posts by S.A.M.
Find all threads started by S.A.M.
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my guess is that you are either:
1) surfing Sciforums at work, school, play
2) obsessive personality
3) homebound thru some disease or other, sort of like Stephen Hawkings, but with the use of your nimble & fast fingers
4) a Saudi-financed paid propagandists, whose job is to camp out on Western websites & defend islam at all costs, (good job btw)

28.9K posts??? get a life!
 
(Q) said:
So, if the angel Gabriel sent a message to Muhammad ONLY in Arabic, for a religion that is supposed to be spread over the earth, why was it not received in other languages?
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because allah was the arabic moon god before (hence crescent moon symbol), had 3 daughters & a wife, Mohammad revamped, refurbished him to be more like the Biblical God, chased out allah's family, then when he took over Mecca, kept the patterns of the old pagan arabic religion, same holidays, hajj, ask yourself, how could Mohammad's father be a "slave of allah" (Abdullah), if;
1) he was a pagan,
2) had that name prior to Mohammad's birth

could it be, that like a car junkie takes a VW frame & engine & puts an MG body on it, Mohammad just did a little jerryrigiging, polishing & mending & put a new body to an old moon god? could be why they hate jews so much, since the jews of Medina would not convert & pointedly showed him were the quran was wrong, but alas Mohammad was illiterate, how would he know what the Torah said?

if a god can only speak in one "official" language, he must by definition be a tribal god, not universal, otherwise his words would sound true & be true in any language, if he is the creator being.

but a freshly gold-plated imposer can only go so far, why do you thing converts have to learn arabic or at least recite the quran in arabic (the job of Madrassas worldwide). I believe that if allah was the creator god, he would want his words translated into other languages & not say specifically that the quran is in perfect arabic for clear understanding, since at the time of Mohammad mission, arabic was just a regional language, not world status like now

A Persian King's response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daDZyBSlicQ
 
S.A.M. said:
Islam is not a new religion. Muhammed merely reiterated what has been known elsewhere in many other languages for thousands of years. For anyone to become a Muslim (ie a submitter to the right way, or to God) he has only to go back to the beginning of his own religion.

Recall the shahada does not say, I believe in the Arabic Quran, only that I believe in God and in the message of Muhammed. The message of Muhammed was that all prophets are from God.
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thanks for your partial answer, you have it right that allah is an old god, seeing how he was the pagan arabs' moon god, hence crescent moon symbol

SAM, do you know paganism when you see it? is not hajj pagan, taken whole clothe from the pagan pre-islamic arabic rituals practiced by Mohammad's kit & kin? why the stone throwing, the kissing of the stone on the Kaaba? the 5 prayers daily TO Mecca? is mecca god or can allah only reside in Mecca or he only understands you when you pray toward him? since he's hard of hearing & monolingual?

aren't you Indian? in such a multi-cultural, multi-lingual world, wouldn't you consider it the height of arrogance that you have to learn the language of some stranger, say a monolingual American tourist that thinks that by speaking English louder & more slowly, you'll understand him, & then complains that you DON'T know english?

let alone suffer a foreign god just like that?
 
Well since everyone has so many complaints about my taking the trouble to answer them, I won't bother anymore. :shrug:

You should all debate with each other. That would be short and sweet.
 
S.A.M. said:
Well since everyone has so many complaints about my taking the trouble to answer them, I won't bother anymore. : shrug :
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You're such a baby, just waiting for some straight answers, not double talk & sweet words
answer this:

is islam a pagan religion?
since it adopted so much belief & ritual from pre-islamic arabic culture?
 
Good points, WBY. Christianity has absorbed pagan traditions; it's no surprise islam has too.
 
S.A.M. said:
Like?
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Like? oh, how about the rituals involved in hajj, are they purely islamic or pre-islamic?

what are the duties at hajj?

does using pagan influenced rituals invalidate hajj (via shirk)

allah, was he a moon god, code named "hubal"?

allah, what happened to his daughters?

allah, what happened to his wife?

who was allah, prior to Mohammad? because he apparently existed in pre-islamic arab culture for Mohammad's father to have been named "Abdullah", yes or no?

what's housed in the kaa'ba? & how is it venerated?

take your time, if you use quranic &/or musliim sources, please reference
 
WildBlueYonder said:
Like? oh, how about the rituals involved in hajj, are they purely islamic or pre-islamic?

what are the duties at hajj?

does using pagan influenced rituals invalidate hajj (via shirk)

allah, was he a moon god, code named "hubal"?

allah, what happened to his daughters?

allah, what happened to his wife?

who was allah, prior to Mohammad? because he apparently existed in pre-islamic arab culture for Mohammad's father to have been named "Abdullah", yes or no?

what's housed in the kaa'ba? & how is it venerated?

take your time, if you use quranic &/or musliim sources, please reference
Click to expand...


Source please?
 
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