If objectivity is taken out of the picture, then how can you rightfully believe that people should be punished (and eternally, permanently) for their subjective choices?
To the Theists. Which God(s) you believe in, which you don't and why?
- Thread starter praty
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If objectivity is taken out of the picture, then how can you rightfully believe that people should be punished (and eternally, permanently) for their subjective choices?
1) The Supreme Being.
Because it's ignorant not to.
2) Claims of God with no ''Supreme Beingness attached''.
Because those claims do not coincide with any religious scripture.
jan.
For example, Christianity promotes a heavenly reward, but only for those who believe its tenets and, of course, live accordingly. Aka, behavior control. In fact, life in heaven apparently lacks free will (ie, everyone cannot behavior other than in a Godly manner, and no one can sin there); however, free will exists in this world. If free will didn't exist in us here, there's be no need for behavior control. For example, a stone has no free will, so there's no need for controlling its behavior. Ultimately, as the Christian faith promotes it, God wants people to do the right thing (ie, behave in a Godly manner). I'm not preaching here, merely explaining behavior control à la Christianity, and it may be getting off topic.
Cifo,
The same can be said for any organisation, or established system.
a) that's like saying a truly good person has no free will because they are unable (by their own standard) to act otherwise.
b) there are scriptoral cases of angels falling from grace due to their loyalty
(or lack of).
So I guess I have to disagree with you here.
I think that every single being has a free will that compliments their lifestyle.
A stone is dead, not alive.
I think God wants us to become intelligent human beings (I don't mean high IQ intelligence) so we can figure out how to act right.
Just ''doing the right thing'' can be just in relation to your culture, or sub-culture, especially if it pertains only to a specific time period, IMO.
jan.
The same can be said for any organisation, or established system.
a) that's like saying a truly good person has no free will because they are unable (by their own standard) to act otherwise.
b) there are scriptoral cases of angels falling from grace due to their loyalty
(or lack of).
So I guess I have to disagree with you here.
I think that every single being has a free will that compliments their lifestyle.
A stone is dead, not alive.
I think God wants us to become intelligent human beings (I don't mean high IQ intelligence) so we can figure out how to act right.
Just ''doing the right thing'' can be just in relation to your culture, or sub-culture, especially if it pertains only to a specific time period, IMO.
jan.
So, belief is a requirement? Or can one just live a good life and be accepted?
So God wants us to voluntarily give up our free will?
any organization. Yeah, it's all behavior control -- even prisoners live by codes.
a truly good person. Christianity says there's no such thing, so we all have free will.
good. What's "good" to one person may not be "good" to another.
give up. We always have free will because we're human.
I think we've gotten off topic.
Cifo -
I'd still like a reply to my earlier question to you:
If objectivity is taken out of the picture, then how can you rightfully believe that people should be punished (and eternally, permanently) for their subjective choices?
I'd still like a reply to my earlier question to you:
If objectivity is taken out of the picture, then how can you rightfully believe that people should be punished (and eternally, permanently) for their subjective choices?
Not at all. Considerations of God's nature and our own nature and the nature of the relationship between us and God may be crucial in why a person believes in God, or not, or in what way.
Then there will be no humans in heaven.
Do you really think that people would never freely "behave in a Godly manner"?
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Praty was very specific and asked that only theists post here, and that they only answer his questions. You asking me questions is not you answering his questions, that is, assuming you're a theist. More succinctly, you should start a new thread. This is my last post in this thread because I answered his questions. QED. Please start a new thread.
All the gods described by various polytheistic pantheons, insofar as they are not mutually exclusive. I focus on and worship European ones. But I believe that they all exist as individual, real divine beings.
Basically, just the ones that would be mutually exclusive to a hard polytheist worldview. If there are multiple gods, then monotheism is logically untenable, and thus I cannot believe in any monotheistic deity figure.
Interestingly, mainstream Christianity (i.e., the majority of the three branches, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox, who follow most of the Councils on theology) posits that at the time when the good angels "rebelled", they had free will, but after that moment of rebellion, the remaining good angels no longer had the will to choose evil -- and the angels who had chosen to follow Lucifer to become evil also no longer have the choice to change and repent.
In the first few centuries of Christianity, this was debated; one of the major Christian theologians, Origen, was deemed to be un-orthodox for many reasons, one of them being that he insisted that even Satan could potentially repent and be saved.