we are just choosier about it. We can afford to be since men are so freakin easy. We don't go around begging for sex because we don't need to.
To Porn or Not to Porn?
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we are just choosier about it. We can afford to be since men are so freakin easy. We don't go around begging for sex because we don't need to.
that makes no sense dragon.. i have sex because i crave it.. not because i crave being an 18 year old with a baby,
Who knew that the idea that the female sex drive is lower than it's male equivalent was so controversial. Tiassa's post ignores the fact that any discussion of human behavior is talking about the average individual. There will always be exceptions. So his tail of exploring the limits of the human anus is irrelevant. As to my wife wanting to nail me, it's true that she doesn't want sex as much as I do; but we certainly do have sex. Just not once or twice a day, as I'd prefer.
As to all the various comments about my claiming that females don't like sex, I never said that. I simply said that the male sex drive is higher. Do all of you honestly dispute that the male sex drive is, on average, much stronger than the female sex drive? I mean, sure, there are always individual variants who don't follow the pattern so anecdotal data can be misleading. But any search of the available evidence reveals the truth. Here's a nice summary:
Birds do it, bees do it, and men do it any old time. But women will only do it if the candles are scented just right -- and their partner has done the dishes first. A stereotype, sure, but is it true? Do men really have stronger sex drives than women?
Well, yes, they do. Study after study illustrates that men's sex drives are not only stronger than women's, but much more straightforward. The sources of women's libidos, by contrast, are much more difficult to pin down.
It's common wisdom that women place more value on emotional connection as a spark of sexual desire. But women also appear to be heavily influenced by social and cultural factors as well.
"Sexual desire in women is extremely sensitive to environment and context," says Edward O. Laumann, PhD, a professor of sociology at the University of Chicago and lead author of a major survey of sexual practices, The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States.
Here are seven patterns of men's and women's sex drives that researchers have found. Bear in mind that individuals may vary from these norms.
1. Men think more about sex.
The majority of adult men under 60 think about sex at least once a day, reports Laumann. Only about one-quarter of women report this level of frequency. As men and women age, each fantasize less, but men still fantasize about twice as often.
In a comprehensive survey of studies comparing male and female sex drives, Roy Baumeister, a social psychologist at Florida State University, found that men reported more spontaneous sexual arousal and had more frequent and varied fantasies.
2. Men seek sex more avidly.
"Men want sex more often than women at the start of a relationship, in the middle of it, and after many years of it," Baumeister concludes after reviewing several surveys of men and women. This isn't just true of heterosexuals, he reports: gay men also have higher frequency of sex than lesbians at all stages of the relationship. Men also say they want more sex partners in their lifetime, and are more interested in casual sex.
Men are more likely to seek sex even when it is frowned upon or even outlawed:
* About two-thirds say they masturbate, even though about half also say they feel guilty about it, Laumann says. By contrast, about 40% of women say they masturbate, and the frequency of masturbation is smaller among women.
* Prostitution is still mostly a phenomenon of men seeking sex with women, rather than the other way around.
* Nuns do a better job of fulfilling their vows of chastity than priests. Baumeister cites a survey of several hundred clergy by Sheila Murphy in which 62% of priests admitted to sexual activity, compared to 49% of nuns. The men reported more partners on average than the women.
3. Women's sexual inclinations are more complicated than men's.
What turns women on? Not even women always seem to know. Northwestern University researcher Meredith Chivers and colleagues showed erotic films to gay and straight men and women. They asked them about their level of sexual arousal, and also measured their actual level of arousal through devices attached to their genitals.
For men, the results were predictable: Straight men said they were more turned on by depictions of male-female sex and female-female sex, and the measuring devices backed up their claims. Gay men said they were turned on by male-male sex, and again the devices backed them up. For women, the results were more surprising. Straight women, for example, saidthey were more turned on by male-female sex. But genitally they showed about the same reaction to male-female, male-male, and female-female sex.
"Men are very rigid and specific about who they become aroused by, who they want to have sex with, who they fall in love with," says J. Michael Bailey, a Northwestern University sex researcher and co-author with Chivers on the study.
By contrast, women may be more open to same-sex relationships thanks to their less-directed sex drives, Bailey says. "Women probably have the capacity to become sexually interested in and fall in love with their own sex more than men do," Bailey says. "They won't necessarily do it, but they have the capacity."
Bailey's contention is backed up by studies showing that homosexuality is a more fluid state among women than men. In another broad review of studies, Baumeister found many more lesbians reported recent sex with men, when compared to gay men's reports of sex with women. Women were also more likely than men to call themselves bisexual, and to report their sexual orientation as a matter of choice.
4. Women's sex drives are more influenced by social and cultural factors.
In his review, Baumeister found studies showing many ways in which women's sexual attitudes, practices and desires were more influenced by their environment than men:
* Women's attitudes towards (and willingness to perform) various sexual practices are more likely than men's to change over time.
* Women who regularly attend church are less likely to have permissive attitudes about sex. Men do not show this connection between church attendance and sex attitudes.
* Women are more influenced by the attitudes of their peer group in their decisions about sex.
* Women with higher education levels were more likely to have performed a wider variety of sexual practices (such as oral sex); education made less of a difference with men.
* Women were more likely than men to show inconsistency between their expressed values about sexual activities such as premarital sex and their actual behavior. http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare?page=3
Here's a really interesting article that discusses the evolutionary theory behind the male female sex drive disparity and suggests ways to remake society to "square" them:Well, yes, they do. Study after study illustrates that men's sex drives are not only stronger than women's, but much more straightforward. The sources of women's libidos, by contrast, are much more difficult to pin down.
It's common wisdom that women place more value on emotional connection as a spark of sexual desire. But women also appear to be heavily influenced by social and cultural factors as well.
"Sexual desire in women is extremely sensitive to environment and context," says Edward O. Laumann, PhD, a professor of sociology at the University of Chicago and lead author of a major survey of sexual practices, The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States.
Here are seven patterns of men's and women's sex drives that researchers have found. Bear in mind that individuals may vary from these norms.
1. Men think more about sex.
The majority of adult men under 60 think about sex at least once a day, reports Laumann. Only about one-quarter of women report this level of frequency. As men and women age, each fantasize less, but men still fantasize about twice as often.
In a comprehensive survey of studies comparing male and female sex drives, Roy Baumeister, a social psychologist at Florida State University, found that men reported more spontaneous sexual arousal and had more frequent and varied fantasies.
2. Men seek sex more avidly.
"Men want sex more often than women at the start of a relationship, in the middle of it, and after many years of it," Baumeister concludes after reviewing several surveys of men and women. This isn't just true of heterosexuals, he reports: gay men also have higher frequency of sex than lesbians at all stages of the relationship. Men also say they want more sex partners in their lifetime, and are more interested in casual sex.
Men are more likely to seek sex even when it is frowned upon or even outlawed:
* About two-thirds say they masturbate, even though about half also say they feel guilty about it, Laumann says. By contrast, about 40% of women say they masturbate, and the frequency of masturbation is smaller among women.
* Prostitution is still mostly a phenomenon of men seeking sex with women, rather than the other way around.
* Nuns do a better job of fulfilling their vows of chastity than priests. Baumeister cites a survey of several hundred clergy by Sheila Murphy in which 62% of priests admitted to sexual activity, compared to 49% of nuns. The men reported more partners on average than the women.
3. Women's sexual inclinations are more complicated than men's.
What turns women on? Not even women always seem to know. Northwestern University researcher Meredith Chivers and colleagues showed erotic films to gay and straight men and women. They asked them about their level of sexual arousal, and also measured their actual level of arousal through devices attached to their genitals.
For men, the results were predictable: Straight men said they were more turned on by depictions of male-female sex and female-female sex, and the measuring devices backed up their claims. Gay men said they were turned on by male-male sex, and again the devices backed them up. For women, the results were more surprising. Straight women, for example, saidthey were more turned on by male-female sex. But genitally they showed about the same reaction to male-female, male-male, and female-female sex.
"Men are very rigid and specific about who they become aroused by, who they want to have sex with, who they fall in love with," says J. Michael Bailey, a Northwestern University sex researcher and co-author with Chivers on the study.
By contrast, women may be more open to same-sex relationships thanks to their less-directed sex drives, Bailey says. "Women probably have the capacity to become sexually interested in and fall in love with their own sex more than men do," Bailey says. "They won't necessarily do it, but they have the capacity."
Bailey's contention is backed up by studies showing that homosexuality is a more fluid state among women than men. In another broad review of studies, Baumeister found many more lesbians reported recent sex with men, when compared to gay men's reports of sex with women. Women were also more likely than men to call themselves bisexual, and to report their sexual orientation as a matter of choice.
4. Women's sex drives are more influenced by social and cultural factors.
In his review, Baumeister found studies showing many ways in which women's sexual attitudes, practices and desires were more influenced by their environment than men:
* Women's attitudes towards (and willingness to perform) various sexual practices are more likely than men's to change over time.
* Women who regularly attend church are less likely to have permissive attitudes about sex. Men do not show this connection between church attendance and sex attitudes.
* Women are more influenced by the attitudes of their peer group in their decisions about sex.
* Women with higher education levels were more likely to have performed a wider variety of sexual practices (such as oral sex); education made less of a difference with men.
* Women were more likely than men to show inconsistency between their expressed values about sexual activities such as premarital sex and their actual behavior. http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare?page=3
Will the male and female sex drive ever square? http://www.asiatour.com/sex-drive.htm
The web site I found that second article on was pretty interesting. He suggests (in his manifesto) that the purpose of life is:
I have stated initially that the primary, philosophical values in life are a gentle death (or, in more general terms, the absence of suffering) and optimal orgasms (or, in more general terms, sexual happiness). The second-tier values are safety and freedom.
http://www.sexualfront.com/kreutz-manifest.htmAnd here are several studies/articles regarding male/female sexuality:
this guy had the most satisfactory answer so far... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090401052902AAdHDwr
Porn isn't what happens in private. It's the graphic depiction of every form of sex you can imagine and those yet to be invented. It's a friggin' business or a hobby in some cases.
So pornography tackles the varied world of sex but it wouldn't be pornography if it wasn't available for all to see. Pornography is far from anything natural. It's calculated to play on your emotions, wants & desires even if considered perverse, and it can educate as well. Its a marketable product and is not just the domain of professionals. Plenty of amateurs produce reasonable good porn but it is no different than singing karaoke, some are good at it and some are bad.
A married guy I know went on a weekend fling with a young tart. No sooner get in the door then she's going down. What does the idiot do while she's busy, why nothing more than film the action on his cell phone. Trouble is he took it home and put it on his computer to send to his buddies. One of his buddy's wives saw it and called the guy's wife but that's another story. What I'm saying is that the sex here was not pornographic until it's imagery became public.
So pornography tackles the varied world of sex but it wouldn't be pornography if it wasn't available for all to see. Pornography is far from anything natural. It's calculated to play on your emotions, wants & desires even if considered perverse, and it can educate as well. Its a marketable product and is not just the domain of professionals. Plenty of amateurs produce reasonable good porn but it is no different than singing karaoke, some are good at it and some are bad.
A married guy I know went on a weekend fling with a young tart. No sooner get in the door then she's going down. What does the idiot do while she's busy, why nothing more than film the action on his cell phone. Trouble is he took it home and put it on his computer to send to his buddies. One of his buddy's wives saw it and called the guy's wife but that's another story. What I'm saying is that the sex here was not pornographic until it's imagery became public.
A good marriage doesn't need pornography, although nowadays it is difficult to escape it because it is even out on the streets, schools, and shopping malls.
And something about your wife, too ....
With some people it is. When it gets down to the individual level, women are going to resent men's reliance on stereotypes to define them. One might suggest that it is easy enough for a couple to just talk these things through, but those discussions are themselves fraught with distorting superstition. For instance, the state of love and trust is such that I've known women to hold back their sexual impulses because of the risk their intimate partners would pose if they knew. It's not a uniform circumstance by any stretch of the imagination, but I've never known a heterosexual man who has faced the inherent question. Partner A recognizes a desire for, oh, let's say, anal penetration, but is unwilling to express this to Partner B because A doesn't know if it's actually going to be pleasurable, and also recognizes from experience from little things like pulling hair or putting hands over the throat that once an aspect of sexual expression is explored, B automatically adopts it into the repertoire. Partner A knows from prior experience that if anal penetration is allowed once, it will be expected, and this disrupts the positive development of the relationship.
Now, I've known a couple of guys who faced similar circumstances, but not quite the same. The way I see it, if you tell your wife that you get off on her getting off with other guys, don't be surprised if you don't always know who she's fucking.
In these cases, it's the nature of the relationship between individuals more than it is the fact of men and women. But the war of the sexes does play out; the actual complications are invested in stereotypes and baseless presuppositions.
Among some, the difference between a hard, stabbing rutting and a slowburn is significant of a difference in sex drives, with the less painful being viewed as characteristic of a lower sex drive.
It's not always the fact of someone generalizing the lower female sex drive--although in many cases it is--but also what people do with it.
No, I'm not irritated that you missed the point. Indeed, I expected you to. But that's only because I was trying to be ... uh ... what's the word? Oh, yeah, "concise". Something like a clear thesis? That's just wasted words.
Anyway, the tale of exploring the limits of the human anus is relevant specifically because you brought it up:
So, really, what is it you said? Once or twice a day, as you'd prefer? If I could get nailed twice a day I would definitely attempt to maintain the relationship. And that's significant in my personal context. But here's the thing: I couldn't get nailed twice a day. At least, not by what I prefer. Really, my body just couldn't take it. Now, maybe if it was small and took the right strokes, but we'll skip the technical details, eh? My point being that after even a mere week or two my anus would show remarkably greater wear and tear than Lindy's--or your wife's--cooch.
And all I was getting after with that is that you're overlooking some important details about the spread of HIV among homosexuals in the 1980s. Sure, it made for something of a funny line, but in this case the simple difference of the nature of HIV transmission--the difference between a vagina and an anus, how much less of a pounding your buttflesh can take over the long run, how many more pathways that provides the virus--is pretty obvious.
And, yes there are more subtly influential factors like civic response to HIV, cultural prejudices, and the behavioral characteristics of a constricted community struggling with drugs and hopelessness, but let's not let these trifling details get in the way of the real reason.
That's all I'm after.
Madanthonywayne said:
With some people it is. When it gets down to the individual level, women are going to resent men's reliance on stereotypes to define them. One might suggest that it is easy enough for a couple to just talk these things through, but those discussions are themselves fraught with distorting superstition. For instance, the state of love and trust is such that I've known women to hold back their sexual impulses because of the risk their intimate partners would pose if they knew. It's not a uniform circumstance by any stretch of the imagination, but I've never known a heterosexual man who has faced the inherent question. Partner A recognizes a desire for, oh, let's say, anal penetration, but is unwilling to express this to Partner B because A doesn't know if it's actually going to be pleasurable, and also recognizes from experience from little things like pulling hair or putting hands over the throat that once an aspect of sexual expression is explored, B automatically adopts it into the repertoire. Partner A knows from prior experience that if anal penetration is allowed once, it will be expected, and this disrupts the positive development of the relationship.
Now, I've known a couple of guys who faced similar circumstances, but not quite the same. The way I see it, if you tell your wife that you get off on her getting off with other guys, don't be surprised if you don't always know who she's fucking.
In these cases, it's the nature of the relationship between individuals more than it is the fact of men and women. But the war of the sexes does play out; the actual complications are invested in stereotypes and baseless presuppositions.
Among some, the difference between a hard, stabbing rutting and a slowburn is significant of a difference in sex drives, with the less painful being viewed as characteristic of a lower sex drive.
It's not always the fact of someone generalizing the lower female sex drive--although in many cases it is--but also what people do with it.
No, I'm not irritated that you missed the point. Indeed, I expected you to. But that's only because I was trying to be ... uh ... what's the word? Oh, yeah, "concise". Something like a clear thesis? That's just wasted words.
Anyway, the tale of exploring the limits of the human anus is relevant specifically because you brought it up:
"Hell, why do you think AIDS spread so quickly among male homosexuals versus heterosexuals? Because homosexuals have no woman in the equation to say no."
So, really, what is it you said? Once or twice a day, as you'd prefer? If I could get nailed twice a day I would definitely attempt to maintain the relationship. And that's significant in my personal context. But here's the thing: I couldn't get nailed twice a day. At least, not by what I prefer. Really, my body just couldn't take it. Now, maybe if it was small and took the right strokes, but we'll skip the technical details, eh? My point being that after even a mere week or two my anus would show remarkably greater wear and tear than Lindy's--or your wife's--cooch.
And all I was getting after with that is that you're overlooking some important details about the spread of HIV among homosexuals in the 1980s. Sure, it made for something of a funny line, but in this case the simple difference of the nature of HIV transmission--the difference between a vagina and an anus, how much less of a pounding your buttflesh can take over the long run, how many more pathways that provides the virus--is pretty obvious.
And, yes there are more subtly influential factors like civic response to HIV, cultural prejudices, and the behavioral characteristics of a constricted community struggling with drugs and hopelessness, but let's not let these trifling details get in the way of the real reason.
That's all I'm after.
Tiassa, I never really paid much attention to you until this post, but good job.
Certainly the other things you mention also played a role. No doubt a significant one. But you can't deny that high levels of promiscuity among male homosexuals also played a role. One study of male homosexuals in the 1970's reports that 40% reported over 500 sexual partners (A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women; New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978). Other's showed fewer, but all showed much higher numbers of sexual partners among male homosexuals than heterosexuals. Total lifetime partners for male heterosexuals average around 6 to 8. Whereas the same study cited above found only 3% of male homosexuals reporting fewer than 10 partners.
Bath houses, glory holes, sex clubs, etc. Surely these things (which, back in the seventies, seemed like just good, clean fun) played some role. Who else is at increased risk? Excluding IV drug users and recipients of blood products, Prostitutes. Is that because prostitutes engage in anal sex more than non-prostitutes? They probably do. But I'd wager it's the increased number of sexual partners that is part and parcel of their trade that increases their risk. Just as the increased number of sexual partners among male homosexuals, especially back in the days when we didn't know of the risks, played a role in the increased risk of HIV among that group.
Captain Honky
Not at all. But that's also a far different proposition than the original.
I'm just busting your punch line. I mean, it works fine for a chuckle, but it's not much for an actual argument. Remember, all this starts with Draqon's assertion that pornography makes masturbation more efficient for men. I mean, really?
Seriously.
And, apparently, it's needed for masturbation.
And, furthermore, women don't have this problem.
At least, according to Draqon.
Might I suggest that in waiting nine or ten months to take your second crack at Asguard's admittedly unexpected response to Draqon, you might have lost a bit of your grasp on the context? I mean, your first attempt was actually a good one. Tragic, that beaver thing, eh?
I, personally, believe that men have a higher sex drive in some objectively measurable way, such as devoting a greater portion of our personal resources--money, thought, action, whatever--to attending and gratifying it. But look at what simple treatment of the idea has led to. Men are viewed as oversexed, women as sexless. And this leads to all manner of confusion, frustration, and eventually hostility. You know, they're all just teases. Dressing up like they're begging for it. Leading you on. But, you know, they're women, so they don't actually like sex.
But neither is sex drive the sole source of such outlooks. There is also the smoldering resentment that comes from the fact that if men were, as a general rule, better fucks, women would be more interested in fucking us. It's not so much the whole milk and cow thing, but rather something about wanting the cow, an underage gymnast, a wily hooker, a mother, maid, and wet nurse, and those twin Mormon girls who roller skated around their daddy's drive-in to bring you all the goddamn milkshakes you can cram down your throat all wrapped up in a single woman.
I would say something about masturbation being mandatory, but I'm a liberal so you might miss the fact that it's a joke and voice your outrage at the tyranny of the orgasm. I wouldn't go so far as to require anal plugs, but I really do think they would do some good for the majority of the population.
And, you know, there's a diverse range of plugs, too. I wouldn't be so demanding as to prescribe an official plug. There's the slender lily-pad looking things, or the one that looks like a clown's nose. Sorry, don't mean to ramble. I'm just looking for a way to work the phrase "Captain Honky" into the post. Mission accomplished.
Madanthonywayne said:
Not at all. But that's also a far different proposition than the original.
I'm just busting your punch line. I mean, it works fine for a chuckle, but it's not much for an actual argument. Remember, all this starts with Draqon's assertion that pornography makes masturbation more efficient for men. I mean, really?
Seriously.
And, apparently, it's needed for masturbation.
And, furthermore, women don't have this problem.
At least, according to Draqon.
Might I suggest that in waiting nine or ten months to take your second crack at Asguard's admittedly unexpected response to Draqon, you might have lost a bit of your grasp on the context? I mean, your first attempt was actually a good one. Tragic, that beaver thing, eh?
I, personally, believe that men have a higher sex drive in some objectively measurable way, such as devoting a greater portion of our personal resources--money, thought, action, whatever--to attending and gratifying it. But look at what simple treatment of the idea has led to. Men are viewed as oversexed, women as sexless. And this leads to all manner of confusion, frustration, and eventually hostility. You know, they're all just teases. Dressing up like they're begging for it. Leading you on. But, you know, they're women, so they don't actually like sex.
But neither is sex drive the sole source of such outlooks. There is also the smoldering resentment that comes from the fact that if men were, as a general rule, better fucks, women would be more interested in fucking us. It's not so much the whole milk and cow thing, but rather something about wanting the cow, an underage gymnast, a wily hooker, a mother, maid, and wet nurse, and those twin Mormon girls who roller skated around their daddy's drive-in to bring you all the goddamn milkshakes you can cram down your throat all wrapped up in a single woman.
I would say something about masturbation being mandatory, but I'm a liberal so you might miss the fact that it's a joke and voice your outrage at the tyranny of the orgasm. I wouldn't go so far as to require anal plugs, but I really do think they would do some good for the majority of the population.
And, you know, there's a diverse range of plugs, too. I wouldn't be so demanding as to prescribe an official plug. There's the slender lily-pad looking things, or the one that looks like a clown's nose. Sorry, don't mean to ramble. I'm just looking for a way to work the phrase "Captain Honky" into the post. Mission accomplished.
Er. Perhaps you have a point there. Thanks for reminding me of it. The best part about the Beaver comment was Asgard's response:
LOL. Now that's funny.umm mad im sorry but i honestly have no idea what your talking aboutim involved in alot of threads at the moment
I looked through the thread and cant find ANY bever
to mad
i guess you got the 'grab your torch and pitchforks' response after saying women have a lower sex drive due to how your assertion has been used in the past. you did present a lot of studies to support your argument.
i was looking at a psychology book which said that men are more likely to be peeping toms because the sexual reward is more accessible (we wank quicker). maybe a woman's sex drive is on par with men, but the harder to reach orgasm puts them off, and so their desire isn't accurately reflected by their behaviour?
i guess you got the 'grab your torch and pitchforks' response after saying women have a lower sex drive due to how your assertion has been used in the past. you did present a lot of studies to support your argument.
i was looking at a psychology book which said that men are more likely to be peeping toms because the sexual reward is more accessible (we wank quicker). maybe a woman's sex drive is on par with men, but the harder to reach orgasm puts them off, and so their desire isn't accurately reflected by their behaviour?
also a reason that i don't go begging..
LOL. Need? Maybe not, but it sure gives ya great ideas. And I've never seen porn in the streets, schools, or mall.
Neither have I. I think that was just an angry exaggeration.
Huh. All the homos I know fuck like animals. They have some of the best blogs ever.
They say the best part about being gay is how easy guys are.