Time Travel is Science Fiction

[Landau Roof]

What ever you time travel buffs want to say... next Tuesday is next Tuesday and it is next Tuesday only because we call it that. It's not a real thing like the indestructible present moment is. All your math and what you suppose is science, but is really mindless dogmatism, and your hope that Star Trek is really going to happen if only we work at it hard enough and Sarek and AManda get together and make a baby is not going to make it possible for somebody with a machine or a PBH (personal black hole) to visit next Tuesday and come back and tell us that the Dodgers beat the Phillies three-nothing. Oh. Listen! I think the time travel train is coming! I can hear it!

Woo! Woo! Woo!

 

[Farsight]

Woo Woo!

LOL!

 

[quantum_wave]

Definitely Woo Woo Woo!

Chime in with some Woo Woos if you agree, lol.

 

[PhysBang]

What ever you time travel buffs want to say... next Tuesday is next Tuesday and it is next Tuesday only because we call it that. It's not a real thing like the indestructible present moment is. All your math and what you suppose is science, but is really mindless dogmatism, and your hope that Star Trek is really going to happen if only we work at it hard enough and Sarek and AManda get together and make a baby is not going to make it possible for somebody with a machine or a PBH (personal black hole) to visit next Tuesday and come back and tell us that the Dodgers beat the Phillies three-nothing. Oh. Listen! I think the time travel train is coming! I can hear it!

Woo! Woo! Woo!

I suppose it is easy for you to say that, having never taken the time to read through the science. Few people who work in science that accept the possibility of time travel believe that it will be practically possible as it happens in fiction. Most people who work with General Relativity admit that GR allows the possibility of some sort of loop of cause and effect from the future into the past but they also feel that GR is incomplete and this obviously improbable idea will probably be ruled out by some, more complete, understanding of the relevant physics.

But much of the animosity in this thread is not because people believe in time travel. (I don't believe in it.) No, this thread is a vehicle for Farsight to peddle his lies about Einstein and to make himself look better. Farsight can't do physics and can't even fully understand his own theories and their implications, but he happily spreads misinformation and insults across the internet.

Look at the OP. Einstein doesn't actually use the work of Einstein or Godel, he references a book about them (a book I suspect he has never read). Farsight says, "It doesn’t say time does not exist, it’s more like time exists like heat exists." However, you will not find this content in the book.

 

[Landau Roof]

Most people who work with General Relativity admit that GR allows the possibility of some sort of loop of cause and effect from the future into the past but they also feel that GR is incomplete and this obviously improbable idea will probably be ruled out by some

Well sir, it sounds to me like you just said GR doesn't really know or cover TT (time travel) and many 'people who work with General Relativity' (who I am sure Paddo is not one) think the Sci-Fi type of TT depicted in films and books for the proles, who wish they hadn't been too shy to talk to that girl they liked in high school, is ridiculous, wishful thinking and just plain old bunk.

I have wished that time travel is possible, but I've also wished that I could poop onto a fine china plate and in half an hour my stool would transform into solid gold, but where does that get me?

 

[PhysBang]

Well sir, it sounds to me like you just said GR doesn't really know or cover TT (time travel) and many 'people who work with General Relativity' (who I am sure Paddo is not one) think the Sci-Fi type of TT depicted in films and books for the proles, who wish they hadn't been too shy to talk to that girl they liked in high school, is ridiculous, wishful thinking and just plain old bunk.

I have wished that time travel is possible, but I've also wished that I could poop onto a fine china plate and in half an hour my stool would transform into solid gold, but where does that get me?

Well, I see that you did not read or comprehend my post. Good work on showing your character.

 

[Landau Roof]

Well, I see that you did not read or comprehend my post. Good work on showing your character.

Self righteousness will get you nowhere. Could it be that I comprehended your post and you did not?

 

[Billy T]

Paddoboy in post 1053:
“ position remains, as to the possibilities or otherwise of time travel.
[1]The laws of physics and GR still do not forbid it.
[2] Any sufficiently advanced civilisation will achieve it.”

Paddoboy in post 1024:
“TIME TRAVEL IS NOT FORBIDDEN BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AND GR:
I have said that many times now, and I'll say it as often as it seems necessary to say...
Theoretically time travel could be achieved...”

Yes you have said that more than 25 times now: however, That is still an error in logic as:
“not forbidden" equals to “is permitted” but “not forbidden" is NOT equal to “is possible”

For example: I am “not forbidden” (I am permitted) to pour boiling water on lead in an effort to melt it but lead will not melt that way as that is not possible.

I have many times admitted that there are several ways (at least 4 very different) to slow aging so that one can live to experience the arrival as the present "now" of a time in the future more distant from "now" than you normal life span would allow. Of the four, suspended animation is by far the most likely to actually be able to extend life by a decade or more. In pigs and dogs more than two hours of suspended animation with successful "re-animation" from deep refrigeration have already been achieved. The hardest part to successfully do is the "re-animation." Thousands of people have been placed in artificial comas, many with their body temperature significantly lowered (>15 degrees F, some > 15C) and from there replacement of the blood with a cryogenic liquid as done in pigs and dogs is easy.
Embryos are routinely stored for years at liquid nitrogen temperatures.

SUMMARY: Our argument is semantic, not about physics. I do not call living beyond your normal life span as measured by Earth's clocks, "time travel" but you do.

Here is an interesting case of accidental human suspended animation of more than an hour without breathing while in ice water:

The longitudinal profile of a 2.5-year old child, after 66 minutes of submersion in icy cold water in Utah and resuscitation on CPB, indicated a pronounced pattern of broad cognitive difficulties [18]. Although, in the original widely referred case report, the child was reported “recovering completely” [17,18]. Subsequent neuropsychological examination revealed impairment of visual-spatial abilities, mild dyslexic characteristics, dramatic memory impairment, full scale IQ of 85, impulsivity, poor concentration and difficulty in sequential planning and organization. However, the patient's recent MRI and magneto-electrography were within normal limits [18].

 

[Landau Roof]

Paddoboy in post 1053:
“ position remains, as to the possibilities or otherwise of time travel.
[1]The laws of physics and GR still do not forbid it.
[2] Any sufficiently advanced civilisation will achieve it.”

Paddoboy in post 1024:
“TIME TRAVEL IS NOT FORBIDDEN BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AND GR:
I have said that many times now, and I'll say it as often as it seems necessary to say...
Theoretically time travel could be achieved...”

Yes you have said that about 25 times now: however, That is still an error in logic as:
“not forbidden" equals “is permitted” but “not forbidden is” NOT equal to “is possible”

For example: I am “not forbidden” (I am permitted) to pour boiling water on lead in an effort to melt it but it will not melt that way as that is not possible.

Yes, I've explained to him how alligator wrestling in a cinema is not forbidden, but will likely get you (and the alligator) thrown out just the same even if you both did pay for your tickets! He told me I was being ridiculous. I told him he was being ridiculous first! Round and round we go! LOL

 

[Landau Roof]

Then there is this line of thought that we will be at least able to send information back into the past. To whom? How? Won't they have to have a time-traveled information receiver (in the past)? The only way they could is if they were us and we did it now (or in the near future). Then we could send back info to ourselves like, "Dodgers beat Phillies 3-0 next Tuesday, Bet $10,000 that they do!" Or can TTI ( time-traveled information) somehow appear in the classifieds (unpaid for). We could tell Adolph Hitler we love his water colors and to never ever give up painting. Perhaps he wouldn't go into politics and we could prevent WWII. Too bad we won't be able to wire money into the past, or convince someone rich (Hello, I am writing to you from the future, please support Hitler's artworks so he won't go nuts) to sponsor Hitler's artistic bent.

 

[krash661]

" a renowned publisher who encourages his friends to find the most pathetic guests possible for their weekly dinner party. "
this thread now resembles " dinner for schmucks "
little engine that could ,mental disabled and clueless bandwagon guy,welcome to dinner, please make yourself feel at home.

 

[Landau Roof]

" a renowned publisher who encourages his friends to find the most pathetic guests possible for their weekly dinner party. "
this thread now resembles " dinner for schmucks "
little engine that could ,mental disabled, lack of mathematics phd-er and clueless bandwagon guy,welcome to dinner, please make yourself feel at home.

Krash, I checked. There never was a time when you contributed anything to this forum other than snide, smarter-than-thou posts such as this latest one of yours. No wonder you didn't take me up on my repeated requests that you provide a link to a post where you actually discuss anything in a serious way. So if you are lying about that, I guess you are lying about your "mathematics phd-er" too. Ta!

 

[krash661]

Krash, I checked. There never was a time when you contributed anything to this forum other than snide, smarter-than-thou posts such as this latest one of yours. No wonder you didn't take me up on my repeated requests that you provide a link to a post where you actually discuss anything in a serious way. So if you are lying about that, I guess you are lying about your "mathematics phd-er" too. Ta!

again, i do not care what you can not comprehend.
i do not care if you think i did not take you up on your so called request. you are always welcome to look at my posting history, it's your choice.
i do not care if you can not understand some of my post,which is the real reason why you are saying such things.
all in all, i do not care what you believe about me. you will realize it's insignificant to anything about me or what i do. it's that simple.

" I guess you are lying about your "mathematics phd-er" too. "
more evidence [which continuously points it's self out] you lack basic comprehension.
this comment was not about myself.

 

[krash661]

Krash, I checked. There never was a time when you contributed anything to this forum other than snide, smarter-than-thou posts such as this latest one of yours. No wonder you didn't take me up on my repeated requests that you provide a link to a post where you actually discuss anything in a serious way. So if you are lying about that, I guess you are lying about your "mathematics phd-er" too. Ta!

what i also find hilarious about this post is,
lets look at your own post since you've started here.
not a single one is other than ridiculing science/scientist [in the very first line of every single post]with a lack of education of any science and with a touch of religious bias, nothing more.
so when are you going to stop being a contradicting hypocrite ?

 

[QuarkHead]

I tell you what, start a thread about the MWI, and I'll rip it to shreds with all the evidence and logic and references you will need. And then you can ignore and dismiss all the evidence and logic and references, and carry on believing in popscience pseudoscience woo.

And you think that "observer-dependent collapse of the wave-function" (this is the Copenhagen Interpretation) makes more sense? Breaking news!! QM makes NO sense - everyone agrees

Uhnnn, it gets worse. Not only are we asked to swallow time travel, but now it's time travel to the future of your choice. Ye Gods!

So what part of the word "if" (which I repeatedly used in my last) do you not understand? I also used the word "caveat", which is admittedly Latin and 3 syllables as rendered in English, so you can be forgiven for not understanding that

Say what, you are a complete moron (and I don't care if I break forum etiquette or even rules by expressing this opinion - you are a menace)

 

[rpenner]

I also used the word "caveat", which is admittedly Latin and 3 syllables as rendered in English

George Bush could rendered it in 4 syllables while heartily slapping the Queen on the back.

 

[billvon]

Then there is this line of thought that we will be at least able to send information back into the past. To whom? How? Won't they have to have a time-traveled information receiver (in the past)?

Most likely, yes.

The only way they could is if they were us and we did it now (or in the near future). Then we could send back info to ourselves like, "Dodgers beat Phillies 3-0 next Tuesday, Bet $10,000 that they do!"

There's a simultaneity problem there. If the device functions as a continuous channel of information from the future of that timeline, then you won't be able to receive any significant (i.e. future-changing) information.

 

[paddoboy]

again, i do not care what you can not comprehend.
i do not care if you think i did not take you up on your so called request. you are always welcome to look at my posting history, it's your choice.
i do not care if you can not understand some of my post,which is the real reason why you are saying such things.
all in all, i do not care what you believe about me. you will realize it's insignificant to anything about me or what i do. it's that simple.

" I guess you are lying about your "mathematics phd-er" too. "
more evidence [which continuously points it's self out] you lack basic comprehension.
this comment was not about myself.

Quite obviously he is not the only one lying. Quite obvious many allegations and many rivial pedantic analogies, red herring's etc.

In summing, and my final reply [I hope ] to this thread.
Time travel is not forbidden by the laws of physics and GR: In fact the equations of GR give the methodology and solutions.
Therefor any sufficiently advanced civilisation could achieve it.

The usual woo woo comments from the usual brigade suffering from the usual inflated egos and delusions of grandeur and other biases, are actually in conflict with the general mainstream take on time travel and what constitutes time travel.

No one yet has linked to or given any authoritive opinion or correction of the above bolded facts.
No one can show that the laws of physics and GR do forbid time travel....
No one has shown why the general opinion by the professionals that time dilation can be thought of as time travel, is wrong.
All the professionals so far have agreed on those two points.
I'm with all those professionals.

PS: When I talk of professionals Farsight, I mean true professionals as referenced in mine and tashja's many links. I certainly do not construe you as anything like a professional, in fact with your obvious lying claims like having a ToE, I see you as the complete antipodes of professionalism.

 

[Trippy]

Nice to see you taking the time to respond to my posts there Billy T - I've provided as much proof in mine as you have in yours, I've just been more succinct with my reasoning.

For example: I am “not forbidden” (I am permitted) to pour boiling water on lead in an effort to melt it but lead will not melt that way as that is not possible.

This argument is as absurd as it is fallicous.

Here's one difference - there is no theory of thermodynamics which predicts that pouring boiling water on lead should cause the lead to melt. Relativity, on the other hand, predicts that time-travel should be possible wherever closed time like loops occur.

It's like the frankly absurd comparison to pink unicorns. There is no theory which predicts pink unicorns should exist, there is, however, one that predicts that time-travel should be possible.

How is that distinction difficult for anyone to grasp? It's at the point where I'm seriously considering treating the people that keep raising these 'points' as trolls.

 

[paddoboy]

How is that distinction difficult for anyone to grasp? It's at the point where I'm seriously considering treating the people that keep raising these 'points' as trolls.

Heaven's to Betsy! No!!