Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for your God?

[Greatest I am]

since death visits everyone equally its not clear what the point of the OP is
:shrug:

Natural death does come to all sure.

Bashing babies heads in on rocks is hardly natural death.

If you do not recognize the purpose of the O P then you do not have much in the way of a social conscience.

It is to correct foolish thinking.
Something we all owe each other.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Nah. It's been done throughout all of history. It means nothing. There's always an excuse to kill, religious or not.

If eliminating some of the reasons for killing has no value, then adding some would not matter either.

Good thinking there friend. Not.

Regards
DL

 

[wynn]

Bashing babies heads in on rocks is hardly natural death.

If you get mauled by a bear - is that "natural death"?

If you get bitten by a rabid bat and die of rabies - is that "natural death"?

If you eat junk food and die of heart disease - is that "natural death"?

 

[wynn]

If eliminating some of the reasons for killing has no value, then adding some would not matter either.

Good thinking there friend. Not.

The fact is that with each breath, you kill millions of tiny beings.
Not to mention the numerous beings you kill while you eat and walk around.

The fact is, there is killing going on all the time, in one form or another.


The question is whether when theists kill, this is blameless killing or not.

 

[birch]

If you get mauled by a bear - is that "natural death"?

If you get bitten by a rabid bat and die of rabies - is that "natural death"?

yes, in the context of how life operates here but that is the major philosophical or ethical issue: a predatorial universe or system. it's something we have to deal with even though for some know or feel that it is innately wrong.

 

[Greatest I am]

If you get mauled by a bear - is that "natural death"?

If you get bitten by a rabid bat and die of rabies - is that "natural death"?

If you eat junk food and die of heart disease - is that "natural death"?

Yes.
None of these are supernatural or done at God's orders.

Regards
DL

 

[wynn]

Yes.
None of these are supernatural or done at God's orders.

What exactly is the difference between
an angry Catholic smashing your head in with an axe
and a bear mauling you to death?

 

[birch]

Yes.
None of these are supernatural or done at God's orders.

Regards
DL

if god created this system, it is responsible. the price to live is at the expense of other life. rather a sad conundrum and something many are aware of at some hard to explain but real understanding that it is wrong but here it is. i think of this universe as an accident rather than a design because if it was a conscious design, it is based on horrible grounds. but we make do the best we can and to live as ethicly as possible is what is most important. there is no excuse for not doing what you can to alleviate or prevent more suffering if you can.

 

[Greatest I am]

The fact is that with each breath, you kill millions of tiny beings.
Not to mention the numerous beings you kill while you eat and walk around.

The fact is, there is killing going on all the time, in one form or another.


The question is whether when theists kill, this is blameless killing or not.

This speaks to intent, self defense and survival.

I submit that if you kill another human without conscious intent to do so, you are not culpable for a sin or crime.

If a scientist finds a way to kill bacteria that is killing man then that is self defense and allowed.

You are right that we inadvertently kill millions of entities daily. We are not culpable of sin or crime though.

Regards
DL

 

[wynn]

This speaks to intent, self defense and survival.

I submit that if you kill another human without conscious intent to do so, you are not culpable for a sin or crime.

If a scientist finds a way to kill bacteria that is killing man then that is self defense and allowed.

You are right that we inadvertently kill millions of entities daily. We are not culpable of sin or crime though.

What if theists are thinking the same thing?
What if the theists are killing people in self-defense?


Theists killing other people isn't necessarily a case of:

 

[Greatest I am]

What exactly is the difference between
an angry Catholic smashing your head in with an axe
and a bear mauling you to death?

Intent and motivation are key to culpability.
The bear has no evil intent, the Catholic does.
The bear is thinking self defense or food.
The Christian is thinking hate.

Regards
DL

 

[wynn]

Intent and motivation are key to culpability.
The bear has no evil intent, the Catholic does.
The bear is thinking self defense or food.
The Christian is thinking hate.

How do you know this?

 

[Greatest I am]

if god created this system, it is responsible. the price to live is at the expense of other life. rather a sad conundrum and something many are aware of at some hard to explain but real understanding that it is wrong but here it is. i think of this universe as an accident rather than a design because if it was a conscious design, it is based on horrible grounds. but we make do the best we can and to live as ethicly as possible is what is most important. there is no excuse for not doing what you can to alleviate or prevent more suffering if you can.

Well put.
Not to derail here but I am working on an O P I would like you to see on responsibility.

Man takes responsibility for what he creates. Should God?

Man is above God in taking responsibility for what we create.

Men, as fathers, take responsibility for the children they create. The law of the land in fact enforces this notion to a great extent.

Men have no control of the nature and DNA part of the children we create. We do have control of the nurture part of the children we create. We step up to these responsibilities until our children are deemed to be adults. Society at that point in time steps up and accept responsibility knowing that as a common, we all effect each other and create the conditions that continue the rearing portion of what makes us who we are.

God is said to create our natures and consciousness’. God the Father, does not tale responsibility for either the nature and DNA part of what he creates, nor does he step up for the nurture part of what he creates.

We are asked in scriptures to follow, emulate, mimic and strive to be as perfect as God.

Men would not think of putting all responsibility for how our children end up, good or evil, on the shoulders of others. God does.

I would suggest that God should be taking man’s example in how to take responsibility for his children. Man’ example is more moral and just.

We as a society take responsibility through law to try to reduce the amount of moral evil in the world. God does not. This, even as believers say that God is the creator of all of us.

Does God have any responsibility for what he creates or not?

Is man’s example better than God’s?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

What if theists are thinking the same thing?
What if the theists are killing people in self-defense?

]

Then if true he is justified. No sin or crime.

If as in much of scripture, they were attacking and not defending someone else's holdings, then that is killing and murder.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

How do you know this?

Personal experience with violence.
Don't ask. I will not give further on this.

Suffice it to say that governments know that even in war, their troops have to be conditioned to hate, to a certain extent, the enemy before the soldiers will kill.
Even then, what is it, 30% of soldiers in the field are just shooting blind and do not chose a target.

Regards
DL

 

[wynn]

God is said to create our natures and consciousness’. God the Father, does not tale responsibility for either the nature and DNA part of what he creates, nor does he step up for the nurture part of what he creates.

You will need to explain this more.

How does God not take responsibility for what He creates?

We are asked in scriptures to follow, emulate, mimic and strive to be as perfect as God.

I only know one Mormon scripture that says so, but no other.

Men would not think of putting all responsibility for how our children end up, good or evil, on the shoulders of others. God does.

How does God do that?

 

[wynn]

Personal experience with violence.
Don't ask. I will not give further on this.

You will have to say more, if we are to discuss this topic.

You have accused theists of malicious intent. I expect proof of it.

 

[arauca]

Because it's a myth?
\

I think the issue that bothers me the most is, not why does God kill, but why do believers kill?

Sorry not all believers kill , look into antiquity there were a lot of martyrs.

I am not in favor to kill, nor to go into war

 

[Enmos]

What exactly is the difference between
an angry Catholic smashing your head in with an axe
and a bear mauling you to death?

A big difference here.
A bear has no idea that it might be doing something that is (1) against the law and (2) morally reprehensible.
A human does, or is at least expected to.
Morality and human law applies only to animals of the human kind.

 

[wynn]

A big difference here.
A bear has no idea that it might be doing something that is (1) against the law and (2) morally reprehensible.
A human does, or is at least expected to.
Morality and human law applies only to animals of the human kind.

What does it matter?

Is a person any less dead if killed by a bear, than if killed by an angry Catholic?