Those Christian Missionaries

Fraggle Rocker said:
Christian armies with the support of the Pope obliterated two entire civilizations in the New World
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I dont want to sound like I'm defending the Vatican, but I imagine the Spanish would have obliterated New World civilizations anyway...regardless of their Christianity.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
.....There is nothing Christians will ever be able to do to atone for the evil perpetrated by Christendom--nothing! If every one of them lived like Mother Thesesa, it can still never right the wrong of depriving us FOREVER of the motifs of two civilizations. It is impossible to escape the conviction that Christianity is at its heart a philosophy of irredeemable evil. .....
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I wonder if that's how blacks feel about whites.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
There is nothing Christians will ever be able to do to atone for the evil perpetrated by Christendom--nothing!
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Gee, I guess it would be better for the world if we just all killed ourselves. What a hate filled statement. Nothing Christians can do, no matter what they do, that will atone for what others have done before them. Nothing at all. Even if they live a life of selflessness they are still tainted.

There is nothing atheists can do to atone for the horrors of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, nothings whatsoever. They are forever tainted with their evil even if they live lives dedicated to helping their fellow man. They are forever cursed because of the actions of other atheists. If members of a group commit crimes or atrocities all future members of that group deserved to be tarred with those atrocities down through the ages. No forgiveness, ever. They can never atone, never.

There is nothing the Spaniards can do to make them good members of society because of the actions of the Conquistadors. They should be condemned down through all eternity. Germans should be despised forever as should Turks, no forgiveness, no atonement, ever.

It is a stupid statement when made about atheists or any other group and it is just as stupid a statement when it is directed toward Christians.
 
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There is nothing atheists can do to atone for the horrors of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, nothings whatsoever.
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Nor is there anything that atheists need to do. Only the most ignorant and pathetic Xian apologists cling to the fallacious notion that these despotic leaders had their actions informed by their atheism.
 
Sorry but you don't get to define who's actions were or were not informed by their atheism. That is for the rest of us, the theists to decide. The three leaders mentioned were stongly anti-religious. It did not matter what religion, all were anathema to them.

Only the most ignorant and pathetic anti-Christian apologists would condemn modern Christianity for crimes committed in its name eons ago.
 
So please, demonstrate to us how these men's actions were informed by atheism. The mere correlation isn't sufficient, since there are many, many more instances of atheists that do charitable and good deeds, without resorting to violence and there are many, many more religious nutters that do violent deeds comparable to the nuts you attempt to cite above.
 
SkinWalker said:
So please, demonstrate to us how these men's actions were informed by atheism. The mere correlation isn't sufficient, since there are many, many more instances of atheists that do charitable and good deeds, without resorting to violence and there are many, many more religious nutters that do violent deeds comparable to the nuts you attempt to cite above.
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Since they didn't attack only Christians or any other single religion they can not be called religious people who were simply anti-Christian, or anti-Semitic, or anti-Buddhist, etc.. They attacked all religions without exception even those that posed no conceivable threat to their regimes. Please give an explanation of what reason other than a hatred of religion caused their actions.


How many religious people, other than Muslim extremsts can you cite as going around killing people? Even the hateful Fred Phelps only celebrates the death of people he considers sinners but does not go so far as to try to kill them.

I am not denying that actions were taken in the name of religion in general and Christianity specifically in the past that deserve to be condemned. Condemn them and I will join you in that condemnation. I will not join you in condemning those alive today for the actions of people long dead.
 
Till Eulenspiegel said:
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There is nothing atheists can do to atone for the horrors of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, nothings whatsoever. They are forever tainted with their evil even if they live lives dedicated to helping their fellow man. They are forever cursed because of the actions of other atheists. If members of a group commit crimes or atrocities all future members of that group deserved to be tarred with those atrocities down through the ages. No forgiveness, ever. They can never atone, never.....
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Nonsense. They were also not baseball fans. Do people that don't like baseball have to apologize for them too?
 
spidergoat said:
Nonsense. They were also not baseball fans. Do people that don't like baseball have to apologize for them too?
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Only if they killed them because they liked baseball.

Your analogy is silly. It is like saying Christians aren't Buddhists so should Buddhists have to apologize to them too.
 
You present a false dichotomy. Should Buddhists apologize for Stalin, because they also don't believe in God? Nonsense. Atheism isn't an ideology, it is a response to one particular religious idea out of many.
 
SkinWalker said:
So please, demonstrate to us how these men's actions were informed by atheism.
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Atheism by definition is a negative...a lacking...a void...therefore it cannot "inform" anyone, nor does it possess "power" of any kind. These men's actions are consistent with/the direct result of, this same lack/void. That some atheists are, relatively speaking, 'better' than others is attributed soley to the fact of the Imago Dei with its origin in God Himself. Any 'good' they do or any evil they avoid is by virtue of God's original activity and not theirs. Negative actions inconsistent with this same positive Imago Dei are their sole responsibility.
 
"Atheism isn't an ideology, it is a response to one particular religious idea out of many."

This is simply incorrect. Atheism is not simply a response to one particular religious idea out of many. Atheism is the belief that there is/are no god(s).
 
The idea that there isn't a God isn't necessarily an ideology. Mao attacked Buddhists as much as anyone else. If there were a religion practicing in Russia that didn't depend on God, they would have been sent to the Gulag too.
 
Religion requires a belief in a deity or deities. No god(s) = no religion. You might have an ethical system but you don't have a religion without god(s).
 
Mao would have been against those as well. He was very anti-Confucianism. The dictators you mentioned were against any system with political implications that ran against their own ideas.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
There is nothing Christians will ever be able to do to atone for the evil perpetrated by Christendom--nothing! If every one of them lived like Mother Thesesa, it can still never right the wrong of depriving us FOREVER of the motifs of two civilizations. It is impossible to escape the conviction that Christianity is at its heart a philosophy of irredeemable evil. Its people live in relative peace and harmony for a few generations, and then BANG, they rise up en masse and commit acts of unspeakable depravity. When they can't find any of us to persecute they fragment into sects and turn upon each other. This is not a movement which on the balance has been a positive force for civilization. Like all Abrahamist sects it reinforces tribalism.
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Are you on glue?

You mean they went to war like everyone else?
 
Till Eulenspiegel said:
Please give an explanation of what reason other than a hatred of religion caused their actions.
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Quite simply: dogmatic and loyalist competition. Religions and other dogmas, doctrines and paradigms competed for the loyalty of the people. They were also very ruthless against capitalists. Indeed, these communist leaders opposed any social hierarchy other than its own that had a potential to redistribute wealth, organize people, or disseminate information since these were threats to the state. It wasn't atheism that informed their religious persecution, it was communist dogma. Dogma competing with dogma.

Attributing communist persecution of religion to atheism is committing the fallacy of false cause, otherwise known as Post hoc ergo propter hoc (and, just because I know you like it: "after this, therefore because of this").

For you to continue your claim that these despots committed their atrocities because they were atheists, you'll need to demonstrate this to be the case in a manner that excludes dogmatic competition and explains why the multitudes of other atheists do not behave similarly.
 
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