Those Christian Missionaries

[Woody]

Christianity is mighty unpopular around Sciforums. :bugeye:

I have a headline I'd like to share:

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=489502

In the article, isn't it remarkable that nobody says an unkind thing about this gunman that shot 4 people? No bitterness. Alas, they offer to pray for him.

This just isn't human.

Y'all can have whatever you've got with all it's bitterness and gall.

From their webpage, here's what they do:

Youth with a Mission

Evangelism
Some creative tools used to present the gospel include drama, music, performing arts and sports camps. YWAMers want to share their faith effectively in ways that the audience--whether teenagers, elderly refugees, or an unreached people group--will understand. YWAM also engages in church planting among unreached people groups.


Mercy Ministry
Mercy Ministry is the "hands and feet" of making God known. YWAM helps meet some of the practical and physical needs of about 400,000 people annually. Caring for street children in South America; aiding in the recovery of drug addicts in North America and Western Europe; feeding and housing refugees and women in need in Africa and Asia, and operating ships that declare the good news practically and verbally, are just some of the ways in which helping hands are extended.


Training and Discipleship
Training and Discipleship aim to better equip Christians to serve others in everything from agriculture and health care, to drug rehabilitation and biblical counseling. Through YWAM's University of the Nations (U of N), missionaries can study in specialized areas such as science and technology, linguistics, the humanities, and Christian ministry. Most YWAM schools combine classroom teaching with relationship-centered discipleship and practical service.

The Discipleship Training School (DTS) is a requirement for applying as YWAM staff, and serves as a prerequisite to all other training programs.

Each year some 10,000 students attend a U of N school at one of the 250 different locations.

Yet some people just choose to hate Christians. I never really understood why. :shrug:

 

[spidergoat]

They certainly maintain the appearance of understanding and forgiveness, but who knows what is in their hearts?

 

[Woody]

They certainly maintain the appearance of understanding and forgiveness, but who knows what is in their hearts?

I think the mission statement pretty well sums up what is in their heart -- a willingness to help others.

 

[spidergoat]

Emotion by committee, whatever works for them.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Christianity is mighty unpopular around Sciforums. :bugeye:

*************
M*W: Why do you think that is? You've been around here long enough that you should be able to understand it clearly. It's just that you don't want to understand it. That way, you can continue the care and feeding of your delusion.

I have a headline I'd like to share:

In the article, isn't it remarkable that nobody says an unkind thing about this gunman that shot 4 people? No bitterness. Alas, they offer to pray for him.

This just isn't human.

Y'all can have whatever you've got with all it's bitterness and gall.

*************
M*W: The "bitterness and gall" you say we have is just another falsity of yours. You wish we were bitter and have gall, but that's transference from your own state of mind. It makes you feel good to think that we are all bitter, but that's just a figment of your imagination.

Yet some people just choose to hate Christians. I never really understood why. :shrug:

*************
M*W: It's not a matter of us hating christians or persons of other religions. It's not even what they believe in. The problem as I see it is that christians choose avoidance to reality which keeps them warm and comfy hiding in their religious addiction.
*************
M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote of the Day:

"Emotional excitement reaches men through tea, tobacco, opium, whiskey and religion." ~ George Bernard Shaw

 

[Enmos]

Atheists have no reason to hate Christians for their beliefs.
In my experience it is more like the other way around. Christians tend to hate atheists.
Furthermore, some Christians annoy the hell out of atheists by continuously trying to convert them.

 

[Orleander]

...In the article, isn't it remarkable that nobody says an unkind thing about this gunman that shot 4 people? No bitterness. Alas, they offer to pray for him. ...
Yet some people just choose to hate Christians. I never really understood why. :shrug:

The Amish did the same when a gunman killed those girl in that school. They received donations and gave some of the money to the gunman's widow.

I don't understand the bitterness and hatred against Christians either.

 

[Woody]

*************
M*W: Why do you think that is?

I suppose the same reason the pharisees wanted Jesus dead when He healed the man with the withered hand on the sabbath day. Jesus offends people's beliefs.

You've been around here long enough that you should be able to understand it clearly.

I understood the pharisee's jealousy from reading a bible before I came to this forum.

It's just that you don't want to understand it.

It's just that I don't understand why someone would go to a youth camp and kill a man and a woman in their early 20s simply because they helped drug addicts and homeless people. Maybe I should understand that but I don't.

That way, you can continue the care and feeding of your delusion.

I wish this was just my imagination, but the killing apparantly continued at another church down the road at the 11 am service. It would be nice if this were a delusion but it's for real:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071210/ap_on_re_us/church_shootings

How about the women picking up their children at the nursery. Was that a reason to open fire?

*************
M*W: The "bitterness and gall" you say we have is just another falsity of yours. You wish we were bitter and have gall, but that's transference from your own state of mind. It makes you feel good to think that we are all bitter, but that's just a figment of your imagination.

ok, the gunmen did this out of love.

*************
M*W: It's not a matter of us hating christians or persons of other religions. It's not even what they believe in. The problem as I see it is that christians choose avoidance to reality which keeps them warm and comfy hiding in their religious addiction.
*************

ok, I guess that means we should thank those gunmen for breaking their religion habit. We need less people like those missionaries, caring for drug addicts and homelesss people. Also there should be less women picking up children at nurseries.

M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote of the Day:
"Emotional excitement reaches men through tea, tobacco, opium, whiskey and religion." ~ George Bernard Shaw

I'm drinking my tea right now. I'd say it tastes pretty good, but tea doesn't excite me emotionally. I've never know tea to excite anyone emotionally. Likewise for tobacco. Opium is a downer, not an upper -- nothing exciting there. Whiskey... ok .. at least he has one point. Religion.... ok it 's exciting... and so are a lot of exciting things that he left out including sex. Each so-called vice has it's practical use when applied the appropriate way.

Religion is a rational approach for people that believe there could be life after their physical death. It hedges their risks, kind of like a mutual fund.

 

[Woody]

M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote of the Day:
"Emotional excitement reaches men through tea, tobacco, opium, whiskey and religion." ~ George Bernard Shaw

I hope George Shaw's obituary reads as good as the shooting victims':

http://www.dailymail.com/News/200712100575

At one time, Philip Crouse was a skinhead and got into trouble for drinking and using drugs. Then he found religion.

Whenever somebody asks me to give a specific situation where a kid's life has been changed or transformed, I always think of Phil, because he had such a radical transformation of life,'' Pastor Zach Chandler told the Anchorage Daily News.

At the church, Crouse "laid down his turmoil. His snarl relaxed -- or turned to an impish grin. He traded his heavy metal drumming for a praise band. He exchanged dark imaginings for Bible study and evangelical zeal. The transformation was as complete as it was remarkable,'' his family said Monday.

The well-liked Tiffany Johnson loved working with children and wanted to see the world, a friend said.

Stephanie and Rachael Works were outgoing, cheerful, faithful and smart, their uncle said.

Stephanie, 18, and Rachael, 16, of Denver, were killed in the shooting at the New Life Church. Their father, David Works, was injured in the attack.

 

[John99]

You didn't know? :bugeye:
They know they are the favorite. Ask them and they will tell you. God loves them best.

I guess anyone would say\think that. Also, those are the ones you had more interraction with.

 

[Woody]

No it's based on - I see no difference.

Also I'd rather have an eternal dialog with Hitler than ask someone "Hey what did you do on earth?", "Oh me I praised God every single minute".

If somebody gave you a million dollars a minute, would you eek out a praise every once in a while?

And when you talk with Hitler you can ask him how many Christian clergymen were killed at the Dachau Concentration Camp.

BTW, When I read this quote from the Colorado killer, it reminded me of some things I've heard on this forum:

"All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."

"Christians are to blame for the world's problems" yeah, I hear it all the time at this place.

 

[geeser]

If somebody gave you a million dollars a minute, would you eek out a praise every once in a while?

no because after the second minute, it would not be worthy of praise, just wastefull, if somebody made everybodies live better, no more suffering, no pain, no hunger, etc then thats something worthy of praise.
giving to much money, just loses it attraction, whilst others are starving and dying.

BTW, When I read this quote from the Colorado killer, it reminded me of some things I've heard on this forum:

especially as you wrote them.

 

[nietzschefan]

If somebody gave you a million dollars a minute, would you eek out a praise every once in a while?

And when you talk with Hitler you can ask him how many Christian clergymen were killed at the Dachau Concentration Camp.

BTW, When I read this quote from the Colorado killer, it reminded me of some things I've heard on this forum:



"Christians are to blame for the world's problems" yeah, I hear it all the time at this place.

Millions dollars a minute for everyone all the time...is meaningless, just like heaven.

 

[Cris]

Woody,

Yet some people just choose to hate Christians. I never really understood why.

Why assume that the gunman is not a Christian?

The current proportion of inmates in US prisons who are religious is slightly higher than non-believers when compared to the outside population.

Given that only about 14% of the population are non-believers then it seems more likely that the gunman was a believer.

Being a believer doesn't appear to make anyone any less likely to be a criminal or violent it would seem.

 

[Cris]

And a little more on the violence and criminal behavior of believers around the world

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070912060857AAAeiLc

Especially -

US prison statistics give us a significant clue.
Atheists, make up about 10% of the US population... but they only make up 0.2% of the US prison population. Now, isn't THAT a surprise? That means that on a per-capita basis, atheists are FIFTY (50) times LESS LIKELY to be incarcerated than Christian

(Statistics from US Bureau of Prisons, 1997)

 

[Till Eulenspiegel]

A terrible tragedy occured and the perpetrator was forgiven by his victims. No matter what the religious or non-religious affiliation of those doing the forgiving it should have been viewed as a magnanimous act, an act truely worthy of humanity but because those doing the forgiving are Christians they are insulted for the act. I honestly cannot comprehend the viscerall hatred of some of the atheist posters in Sciforums. They profess to be enlightened individuals yet they exhibit all the mannerisms of thugs.

 

[SkinWalker]

Public displays of piety are beneficial to believers since this gives them status among themselves. Whether that piety is genuine or not is unknown and, perhaps, irrelevant until such time as the believer who claims to have forgiven the shooter demonstrates that forgiveness really wasn't his/her desire. Personally, I find the mere courage of publicly stating that you forgive someone that committed a violent act against you to be commendable, but I wonder how many of the direct family members (spouses, children, parents) of the victims have publicly voiced their forgiveness? Maybe all of them. However, I'd be willing to bet that had the shooter survived, forgiveness wouldn't be such an easy word to offer in public with his name.

@ Till Eulenspiegal (which in modern German translates to "owl mirror" but is derived from ul'n spegel, meaning "wipe the arse")

What, specifically are the examples of Christians being insulted for their act of forgiveness and the "viscerall hatred" of some alleged "atheist posters in Sciforums?"

 

[Cris]

Till,

A terrible tragedy occured and the perpetrator was forgiven by his victims.

I can see justifying forgiveness for a genuine mistake but it is difficult to see justification for a deliberate intentional action. The essential flaw in the Christian approach is that it deflects people from taking responsibility for their actions. If you intentionally commit a wrong deed there is no way to take it back and you must face the consequences and live with it. Christianity falsely offers an exit strategy for that inner torment – i.e. a god will ultimately forgive you your wrong deed and make things right. That, perhaps even subconscious, perception that a wrong action can be corrected later discourages pro-active responsible behavior.

No matter what the religious or non-religious affiliation of those doing the forgiving it should have been viewed as a magnanimous act, an act truely worthy of humanity but because those doing the forgiving are Christians they are insulted for the act.

Not sure they are being insulted. It would appear that their action of forgiving appears to be driven not by a claimed altruistic perspective but by their personal beliefs that such an approach of forgiveness will be rewarded by their deity. I.e. the perception of altruism is in fact hypocrisy

I honestly cannot comprehend the visceral hatred of some of the atheist posters in Sciforums.

As opposed to the visceral hatred of some of the Christian posters here for atheists. So what’s your point? But who did you have in mind? I’m not sure I’ve noted any atheists here show hatred of any Christian because they are Christian. There is certainly heated disgust at the rampant irrationality of religious claims – is that hatred?

They profess to be enlightened individuals

They do? Perhaps you have missed their fundamental point – that it is the theists who claim enlightenment but cannot prove it.

yet they exhibit all the mannerisms of thugs.

Huh? How is asking for proof thug like?

 

[Photizo]

Christianity falsely offers an exit strategy for that inner torment – i.e. a god will ultimately forgive you your wrong deed and make things right. That, perhaps even subconscious, perception that a wrong action can be corrected later discourages pro-active responsible behavior.

God graciously provides the exit strategy for that inner torment i.e. the cognitive dissonance arising from acting inconsistently with Imago Dei. The humility necessary to accept the exit strategy along with the gratitude for so great a deliverance encourages subsequent pro-active responsible behavior.

You also encourage pro-active responsible behavior...i.e. exposing your lies.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Christianity is mighty unpopular around Sciforums.

This is because all religion by definition irrationally presumes the existence of an unobservable supernatural universe populated by humanlike creatures who perturb the workings of the natural universe and control our lives. The fundamental tenet of science is that the natural universe is a closed system whose behavior can be understood and predicted using theories derived rationally from empirical observations of its past and present behavior. Over the centuries no challenges to this tenet have survived peer review. Therefore true Christianity and all religion (as opposed to the ceremonial variety) stands in opposition to science. That would tend to make it very unpopular on a science website.

Yet some people just choose to hate Christians. I never really understood why.

Christianity has gone through rather regular cycles of noble and evil behavior. I was born just as it entered one of the good ones (civil rights, anti-war, etc.) which happens to be what you've had the good fortune to live through. The previous long era was abysmal: unspeakably vile acts performed in the name of Jesus and/or with the encouragement of Christian leadership. (The Holocaust, segregation, Jim Crow, slavery.) Christian armies with the support of the Pope obliterated two entire civilizations in the New World and there can be no greater "sin" than the loss of one of the only six civilizations that were ever created, much less two of them, with all of their philosophy, art, and different ways of looking a life.

I don't understand the bitterness and hatred against Christians either.

There is nothing Christians will ever be able to do to atone for the evil perpetrated by Christendom--nothing! If every one of them lived like Mother Thesesa, it can still never right the wrong of depriving us FOREVER of the motifs of two civilizations. It is impossible to escape the conviction that Christianity is at its heart a philosophy of irredeemable evil. Its people live in relative peace and harmony for a few generations, and then BANG, they rise up en masse and commit acts of unspeakable depravity. When they can't find any of us to persecute they fragment into sects and turn upon each other. This is not a movement which on the balance has been a positive force for civilization. Like all Abrahamist sects it reinforces tribalism.