This seems reasonable enough.....

[The Devil Inside]

how could something be "corrupted" before islam came into being, diamondhearts? if judaism and christianity are "corrupted" forms of islam, can you please point me to some reputable archaeological evidence, or even scripture that doesnt originate from mohammed or one of his followers (in his lifetime) that states that islam came first?

if not, then islam is actually a corrupted version of judaism or christianity (take your pick).

now, im not really all that dogmatic about my faith, but come on...how much older is judaism than islam? how can you say it is a corrupted form of islam? pleaaaaaase point me to what was before judaism, then. it better be identical to what you call islam today, or you were incorrect in your statement.

 

[DiamondHearts]

how could something be "corrupted" before islam came into being, diamondhearts? if judaism and christianity are "corrupted" forms of islam, can you please point me to some reputable archaeological evidence, or even scripture that doesnt originate from mohammed or one of his followers (in his lifetime) that states that islam came first?

Islam as the true religion, even though it was not known by that name, was the religion of all the prophets of Allah swt starting from Adam (a), the first man. Abraham (a) was the first Prophet to recieve a book and to actually be considered not only a prophet (nabi) but a messenger (rasool) as well. His religion is the religion which all three faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam essentially originate from. The laws and commandments in the written books of Abraham (a) were lost. Then the Hebrew prophets from descent of Prophet Ishaq (Isaac) were blessed with a lineage of prophets and the book Zabur from Hazrat Dawood (David) (a) and the book of Hazrat Musa (Moses) (a) Torat (Torah), and then the book Injeel (Gospel) of Hazrat Isa (Jesus) (a). These books were corrupted by the followers and the clergy of these faiths of which the modern collection of books of Torat and Injeel are today. They are remnants which have been corrupted from original messages of Allah swt. So then the seal of the prophets, the holy prophet Sayyidina Muhammad (s) was blessed with the final revelation the holy Quran. This book was the blessed miracle of Allah swt and cannot be corrupted, Allah swt will Himself preserve this revelation of His final and beloved prophet.

This belief is part of my faith as a Muslim. This corruption of ancient books Injeel and Torat is in the Quran, which is the final book of Allah swt.

if not, then islam is actually a corrupted version of judaism or christianity (take your pick).

This is the belief of Jews and Christians. As a matter of fact I expect you to have this belief.

now, im not really all that dogmatic about my faith, but come on...how much older is judaism than islam? how can you say it is a corrupted form of islam? pleaaaaaase point me to what was before judaism, then. it better be identical to what you call islam today, or you were incorrect in your statement.

The modern religion of Islam is the true religion which has been taught throughout all human history by the holy prophets and messengers of Allah swt. It was not always called Islam, but it was always called submission to Allah swt. Is-laam in Arabic means willful submission (to the will of Allah swt). We see that it is not named after an ethnic group (Judaism from Tribe of Judah bin Israeel (Yaqub) bin Ishaq bin Ibrahim (a)) or a person (Messiah Jesus Christ (Masih Isa) (a) bin Maryam as in Christianity). Some of the laws like sabbath, kosher laws have been changed by Allah swt and some laws added to make it suitable for all humanity not just Children of Israel (Judaism and Christianity were originally for). It is the true religion of Allah swt.

This is Muslim belief. I don't expect you to believe the same if you are Jewish or Christian. I was only stating my beliefs.

Peace.

 

[DiamondHearts]

the g-d of abraham isnt known for changing his mind. it is people that break away from his word that say "g-d changed his mind". if judaism is a "corrupted" version of g-d's word, then why do muslims revere moses, as he was the one who brought judaic law into effect among the israelites?

We believe the original law (Torat) brought by Moses, Musa, (a) has been corrupted over the ages.

Allah swt did not change his mind, and we believe all those who followed Hazrat Musa (a) were true Muslims and believers. Mankind tampered and changed the books of Allah swt.

unless you want me to sling mud at your religion (something i would not normally be ready to do), i would suggest having a bit more tolerance toward people of other faiths. just because we dont constantly prosetylize to the forum members, doesnt mean that there arent jews here.

I was stating Muslim belief of Judaism and Chrisitianity. If I believed that either were a true religion, wouldn't I follow them myself? I believe they have many truths in them, but they have been corrupted. This is my difference in belief from you. I never said I don't respect Judaism, I do very much.

now it is obvious that you know nothing of judaism. judaism and islam have so much in common that in reality, they are extremely hard to distinguish between, if you put both religions on paper. there is ONE glaring difference, really. there are no more hebrew prophets, and jews do not accept mohammed as a prophet. the rest of the religions are so ridiculously similar, that there is really no point in seperating them. muslims are just like christians in the fact that they idolize a man, whilst practicing (in theory) modified judaism.

Differences: Islam and Judaism

Although there are a number of differences between Judaism and Islam, yet all these differences seem to emanate from one major and basic difference. The most important and the most significant difference between the two religions, which also provides the basis for all the other differences between the two creeds is the prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh). The Muslims, as is well known, hold Muhammad (pbuh) to be the true and the last prophet of God. The Jews do not. Although, apparently it may seem to be a difference relating to one of the beliefs only. However, for a person, who is aware of the position of a prophet of God, it is quite easily comprehensible that this difference results in a difference of foundation upon which the two buildings of Judaism and Islam are built. It actually implies that the two religions are based on the teachings brought to us by two different persons. For a Muslim, the teachings brought by Muhammad (pbuh) are actually the final revelation of the Almighty, which every person must follow to earn eternal salvation. Any person, who rejects the prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh), even after being convinced of his truthfulness is bound to fall in the eternal fires of hell. On the contrary, for a Jew, it is primarily the teachings of Moses (pbuh), which need to be followed for the eternal success in the hereafter.

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=307

Although there are many similarities there are also differences. Islam and Judaism do not believe in the trinity while Christians do. The Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet but not part of God/Allah himself. The Muslims also believe that Christ was not crucified by the Jews, but the Christians do. The Christians believe that instantly after death you are judged by your deeds and either sent to heaven or to hell. The Muslims and the Jews on the other hand, believe that the souls of the diseased will be judged on Judgment Day. The Muslims believe that all people are born pure, but the Christians believe that they were born with original sin and must be baptized to be free of it. Hell and Heaven are forever in Christianity, but in the Islamic faith Allah could forgive you and it would be possible to reach Heaven. The Islamic Hell is a sort of cleansing you could say. Only females are allowed to wear gold in the Islamic faith, while both male and female can wear it in Judaism and Christianity. Jews and Christians believe that the prophets were not pure but the Muslims believe that all of the prophets were pure. Muslims and Jews do not eat swine, but Christians are permitted to.

http://www.answers.com/topic/similarities-between-judaism-islam-and-christianity

yes, i see bigotry from you constantly...against anyone that disagrees with you.

I was responding to a claim by Micheal who said that Most Muslims are not educated.

Would it also be bigotry for me to say Most Jews are not educated?

I hope you don't actually believe what you said.

a peninsula is a geographic label. a state is a political one. by your statement, i guess everything from alaska to the panama canal is all the same nation? get a clue.

I was referring to Michael who said Islam is the state religion in Arabia. What state is Arabia? Arabia is a Peninsula.

A·ra·bi·a Audio pronunciation of "arabia" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rb-) also A·ra·bi·an Peninsula (-b-n)

A peninsula of southwest Asia between the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf. Politically, it includes Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait. Arabia has an estimated one third of the world's oil reserves.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=arabia

http://www.nystromnet.com/information/Maps/images/ArabianPeninsula.jpg

I don't dislike you, so I'm wondering were all this opposition came from. I have never said anything bad about Jews, as a matter of fact, you will be hard pressed to find me say anything bad about Jews. I will repeat, I respect Jewish religion and ethnicity.

Peace.

 

[The Devil Inside]

the opposition comes from you saying that my personal religion is corrupted. not that i personally care what someone else thinks of my relationship with the universe, but it is still kind of rude.

all that aside.........how can you have great respect for judaism, if you believe it to be corrupted and false? i do not respect christianity, or islam. the individual practitioners are a different story, and i decide about them on an individual basis.
however, it hurts me to see people killing in the name of religion, as i see practitioners of islam doing. i WILL give them one thing though: at least they are open and honest about their motivations. the false christians that they are fighting against wont even be honest about that.

 

[DiamondHearts]

the opposition comes from you saying that my personal religion is corrupted. not that i personally care what someone else thinks of my relationship with the universe, but it is still kind of rude.

all that aside.........how can you have great respect for judaism, if you believe it to be corrupted and false? i do not respect christianity, or islam. the individual practitioners are a different story, and i decide about them on an individual basis.
however, it hurts me to see people killing in the name of religion, as i see practitioners of islam doing. i WILL give them one thing though: at least they are open and honest about their motivations. the false christians that they are fighting against wont even be honest about that.

Thanks for clearing that up. I personally have nothing against Judaism. I believe Judaism to be divine, however I believe the Torat has been corrupted. This is my belief as a Muslim.

I respect you for being open about your beliefs as well, and I respect any Jew who does not believe in Zionism. This is a very courageous thing and very respectable thing to believe, especially as a Jew.

I also respect Christianity, especially the great teachings of kindness of Prophet Jesus (s) which I believe is also evident in Islam and Judaism.

You will not find any post of mine which is spreading hatred or bigotry against Jews or Christians because I respect those people who are devoted to their faith and are honest people.

I might tell what Muslims believe of Christianity or Judaism, but this is only disagreement with these religions on certain subjects. I will never spread any hatred, because this is against my religion and against religions of Christianity and Judaism as well.

If I insulted you, that was not my intention. I was stating the belief of why Muslims believe their religion isn't from Judaism.

I hope you understand.

Peace.

 

[The Devil Inside]

sure enough, diamondhearts. i see you in a different light now.
ill write more on this subject tomorrow..right now i have to go cook and do some cleaning.

thank you very much for clearing that all up. if i insulted you, i apologize as well.

interestingly enough, you are the first person on this site that has had the nerve to be honest and forthcoming about their relgion, without being snotty.

talk to you tomorrow!!

 

[mustafhakofi]

diamond you talk out of your a**, you know as well as I the the qu'ran has come from Judaism, it was just that to convince is followers of the lies he was portraying, mohammad had to say that islam came first, just pure BS.

pbui

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Can anybody please explain why their religion is the "only true and correct" religion? So confusing; so many to choose from. Who's to say - and justify - which is correct?

Anyone care to answer?

not all religion say theres is the right one,

zen buddhism, and daoism/taoism, speak of no gods whatsoever, and they teach people to accept other religions and other peoples belief system and respect all walks of life,


not all religion is the same.

peace,

 

[Light Travelling]

Michael-

I thought Tibetan Buddhism evolved after the Muslim invaders destroyed Nolanada (in India.) So the Mahayanas there fled over into Tibet...

Where they were influenced by the indiginous bon religion and by taoism from the north.

 

[Light Travelling]

zen buddhism, and daoism/taoism, speak of no gods whatsoever,

This is not true. There is a pantheon of gods in both taoism and buddhism. Many of the Hindu pantheon are held to be existing in buddhism. The difference is how gods are viewed. In buddhism gods are still sentient beings who are subject to birth and death, they do how ever have very long and comfortable lives, we may win a favourable rebirth in the realm of the gods if we lead a good life (according to buddhist scripture). In taoism as well there is a pantheon of immortals and gods who can be prayed to. What buddism and taoism do not have is an all powerfull creator god who decides our destiny for us.

there is of course a philosophical school on taoism - lao tzu / chuang tzu - where although the gods are not the primary focus they are still present.



Also note that in buddhism there are hells. And in taoism an underworld where beings are "educated" before there next human rebirth

and they teach people to accept other religions and other peoples belief system and respect all walks of life,

This is true and seperates the eastern religions from the western (or should I say middle eastern). And please add Hinduism to this list. There is a Hindu saying "the different religions are like different cows, but true spiritual teaching is like the milk that comes from them"

 

[The Devil Inside]

but, light travelling.....the goal of buddhism is to escape the cycle of birth/death in all of it's forms.

wouldnt gods be considered something to be pitied, almost?

 

[Light Travelling]

but, light travelling.....the goal of buddhism is to escape the cycle of birth/death in all of it's forms.
?

Yes escaping from the cycle of life and death (arhanship) is one of the goals in buddhism, full buddhahood is another goal. It depends which school of buddhism one adheres to.

And yes a birth in the realm of gods is still a birth and provides only temporary relief from suffering. Eventually one must be born again in the realm of humnans to achieve liberation. (according to buddhist scripture). This is why a human birth is considered so valuable in buddhism, it is only as a human that one can achieve liberation or buddhahood.

wouldnt gods be considered something to be pitied, almost?

Not pitied, but all sentient beings should be treated with compassion, respect and equinamity. This applies whether the being is a human, god, ghost, demon or animal. (there are actually 6 categories of being according to buddhist cosmology)