Theological self-sabotage

[Adstar]

It appears that like Enmos, you are missing my brilliant point (!) that what we think about our efforts affects the way we see the goal of our efforts, and that this has an impact on what effort we actually expend.

Oh i understood your point. If one thinks God is nice then one will be more enthusiastic about seeking Him and will be more willing to believe in Him and vice versa that if one believes God is mean then one will not be as enthusiastic in their seeking and will want to disbelieve He exists.

But my reply was to try and lift people above that limitation. If God exists it is important to investigate Him well and seek to find out if there is a response that you can opt for that will see your eternal interests secured. Wether God is a Fairy type God or weather He is a Monster kind of God should not factor into ones investigation.

It is often said that an attitude of "I already know enough, I have already done enough" or an attitude of pride impedes learning.

Well as a Christian i believe i can never know God completely in this life. So there is always the knowledge in me that says it is possible to know more about God.

And I exemplified how such an attitude has self-sabotaging implications for one's search for God.

True and also kind of false at the same time. There is a difference between the level of knowledge required and the total amount of knowledge available about God. As a Christian i believe the amount of knowledge that is required to know about God is far less then the total amount of knowledge that exists about God. So i believe one can Know God to the point of what is necessary without knowing God in detail.

One can start off with no particular idea about God. But certain ideas about the (in)sufficiency of one's efforts will impact how one goes about one's search and will also color the goal and its worthiness to one.

Lots of people persevere with their searching because they see the seriousness of the issue. If You believe there indeed could be a God then knowing the absolute control a God would have on the eventual outcome of ones existence would motivate one to search for Him their entire life time without ceasing.

In short, if one doesn't have certainty about God, but one thinks one has already done enough to come to that certainty, then one will not make further efforts and will view God negatively, thereby seemingly justifying the lack of further effort.

I disagree. I believe i have come to know the knowledge about God to the required extent but i know i have only scratched the surface as to the amount of knowledge that may be open to me if i seek His will further. So i am very motivated to find out more wisdom from God. Because maybe, God will grant me more wisdom and understanding in the future.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SciWriter]

So everything that's not a fact, is an illusion?
What about facts that are yet to be discovered?

jan.

They would be of the visible, whereas your notion is of the invisible, for which, by definition, no conceivable evidence is possible, thus, even more notions layered upon, such as 'spirit' being something. Then more layers. Plus, do you realize that then people even speak for Him who isn't there?

The more complex is ahead of us and the simple elementals, not behind.

 

[Mind Over Matter]

If one wants to have certainty about God, but doesn't have it yet:


1. If one doesn't yet have certainty about God, but one thinks that what one has done so far to come to certainty about God, should already be enough, then one implicitly believes that God is not just and does not give spiritual insight justly.
This way, one sabotages one's own efforts to come to certainty about God, since nobody in their right mind would be interested in an unjust God.


2. If one doesn't yet have certainty about God, but one thinks that what one has done so far to come to certainty about God, might not yet be enough, then one implicitly believes that God is just and does give spiritual insight justly.
This way, one empowers one's own efforts to come to certainty about God, since everybody in their right mind would be interested in a just God.


Comment.

Well, if you don't have certainty about God, then any notion that He's just would be a hypothetical-a hope- rather than a belief at that point. :shrug:

However, Jeremiah 29 tells us that when we seek God with all of our hearts, we will find Him.

 

[spidergoat]

Then why didn't that work for Mother Teresa?

 

[wynn]

Then why didn't that work for Mother Teresa?

Who on earth would cry foul and beat their chest, claiming "I have searched with all my heart! I should be certain about God by now! I am the most honest and sincere person! Arrrghhh!"

:bugeye:

 

[Mind Over Matter]

It is true that a lot of people have problems believing in God, and that one of the questions brought up concerns the evil in the world, especially the terrible evil done to children and other innocent victims.
In the case of an atheist, he might base his sense of justice on humanitarian grounds and a belief that it is a value to be good to one's neighbor.
However, if you do want to have more certitude about the existence of God, I would recommend reading and studying a few books.

For example,
Help My Unbelief by William J. O'Malley
or
New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy by Robert J. Spitzer

 

[wynn]

However, if you do want to have more certitude about the existence of God

Thanks. But it seems my issues are more basic - toward problems of pure epistemology.

 

[Mind Over Matter]

Thanks. But it seems my issues are more basic - toward problems of pure epistemology.

Studying and reading in the area does not hurt and may illuminate your questions.

 

[birch]

However, Jeremiah 29 tells us that when we seek God with all of our hearts, we will find Him

it depends on how this is taken to mean. if one fixatedly searches for 'god' with an already formed concept, could miss it entirely. ironicly that is what most religionists do. they are just trying to find confirmation for their own beliefs. that is what a cult is.

this is also why they don't usually consider other philosophies, religion or information.

 

[SciWriter]

this is also why they don't usually consider other philosophies, religion or information.

That is the considerable truth of many believers here for the inconsiderable. It is as if they are immune, which is what I gather from the neglect upon postings in these fields that pertain, and that, itself, is worthy to move on to as a study.

For example, strong emotion may trump all else.