Theists (Mostly Xains)muslims etc..Need To sort out!

[fahrenheit 451]

a few things Theists (Mostly Xains)muslims etc..Need To sort out!

Define God/allah/etc..

Is he omnimax? Is he the Xian God? Are all others delusional about their gods?

Omnimax

Define this. Is it reality? Does watering down the definition really help support a god?

Objective Standard of Morality

Does one exist? Does God dictate it or is he obliged to stick to it? If God is good and created everything, how could Evil exist?

Free Will

Define it. Does it exist? How could it exist with predetermination. If it is used as an excuse for Evil can it be demonstrated that free will is Good?

The Bible

Do you adhere to it? Was it the word of man (possibly inspired by God) or is it the actual word of God?

Evolution

What do you think it is (give us your definition)? Does it disprove God if true? If you give the old Macro vs Micro you better damned well state where you think the line is.

Atheism

What do you think this means?


this would help to reference for future debates (and maybe a little debating here as well) .

 

[what768]

Define God/allah/etc..

Is he omnimax? Is he the Xian God? Are all others delusional about their gods?

I will tell you the truth. God is God. He is like love. But there is no way for us to define God because he is beoynd this world. There is nothing which God could be compared to, so that he would become understandable. Because only by separating, knowledge is possible, but God is the unity itself.

God is only possible to experience, God can only be You. There is only one perfect God. People are not delusional about their gods. Many people call God by different names, yet they believe in the very same God of love.

Objective Standard of Morality
Does one exist? Does God dictate it or is he obliged to stick to it? If God is good and created everything, how could Evil exist?

God's law is as real as the law of gravity. If one does not obey it, he might fall down and die. God gave man free will and then man created evil when he started to obey the law of satan/matter. There is no evil without man. Imagine the universe without man, and suddenly evil does not exist anymore.

If there is no evil, we can not know what is good. But in reality there is no good or bad, but only the divine. Man feels that there is good and bad because he ate from the tree of knowledge. Now, if we fully learn to know what good and bad is, they will both vanish. They will "melt" together as hot and cold water. Now "God" becomes "visible", which is neither hot or cold. Good and bad will dissapear the same way as the male and female side of the one who knows himself. If we know the good and bad completely, we will become the combination of these two. This is balance.

Free Will

Define it. Does it exist? How could it exist with predetermination. If it is used as an excuse for Evil can it be demonstrated that free will is Good?

Everything is written down, and it will happen just that way. Man is not conscious of his destiny and that is why he has free will, because he feels that he has. Nothing is good or bad, except for how it is used.

The Bible

Do you adhere to it? Was it the word of man (possibly inspired by God) or is it the actual word of God?

There are some things written in the Bible which are the word of God, and there are those words which are inspired by God, and there are those which are written by man alone. The word of God is like this: "Love others as yourself." Those are not my words, but they come from God. There are bad things in the Bible but there are more good things than bad - believe in the good!

Evolution

What do you think it is (give us your definition)? Does it disprove God if true? If you give the old Macro vs Micro you better damned well state where you think the line is.

A natural law would not disprove God because he created the natural laws. Truly I tell you, evolution happens. But never will a creature form to another creature. See and wonder how many different creatures roams the earth, truly, a squid and a bird are not from one another. All human "races" will melt into one. Because they will think higher truths, they will have a greater skull, that kind which is seen in the pyramids on people which represented gods and great men. Their eyes and skin color will be different. Man will have a greater skull of the same reason as a rabbit has great ears, because a rabbit uses the ears so much.

Man looks like man only because he has the "spirit" of man "in" his body. A certain bird has the spirit of a certain bird. A certain fish has the spirit of a certain fish. Because the creative power (the word) expresses himself in all countless ways, all life has it's own unique spirit. If the spirit of a man was put into a bird, it would die instantly. Just as if a prophet's spirit was put into an ordinary man, he would die. Because of this, neither can no creature form into another creature. Also of this very reason, most life would have die if they touched the Ark of the Covenant. Only those like Moses and Jesus, and very small children are able to touch it.

I am glad that science has discovered the truth that all things are created from small vibrating "strings" of energy. All of these strings are unique, and because this, there are so many different creatures on earth. That which I called man's "spirit" is but countless combinations of these strings.

Another parabel: Words do not come by themselves, but I write them. Every word is different from one another other. But they are limited, just as the creatures on earth are limited. Words are not born from one another, from a certain word, but they come from the divine source. In the same way, creatures are not born from a certain ancestor, but they are all created by the ultimate power which we call God.

Atheism

What do you think this means?


this would help to reference for future debates (and maybe a little debating here as well) .

I think atheism means the people who say that they have not belief in God.

:m:

 

[SKULLZ]

"Ark of the Covenant"

Yeah dont wanna touch that,this weird spooky shit comes out and melts your face,sets you on fire,then you explode.
I got near that once but then this giant boulder come down and chased me away.

"free-will"

you know this exists?
free will could be illusional

"God's law is as real as the law of gravity. If one does not obey it, he might fall down and die"

or his face and eyeballs melted.

"People are not delusional about their gods"
errrrrrrr,thats an oxymoronic staement if ever thier was one

 

[Q25]

I will tell you the truth. God is God. He is like love.

But there is no way for us to define God because he is beoynd this world.

congrats on contradicting yourself in the same sentence!
and what does it mean beyond this world?
isnt god supposed to be everywhere?

There is nothing which God could be compared to, so that he would become understandable.

first you say hes love,and now he cannot be known?wtf

Because only by separating, knowledge is possible, but God is the unity itself.

this doesnt make any sense

God is only possible to experience, God can only be You. There is only one perfect God.

let see: I am God,I am perfect,
and before you said God cant be defined?whats going on here?

People are not delusional about their gods. Many people call God by different names, yet they believe in the very same God of love.

is this the same god ?
www.evilbible.com/

God's law is as real as the law of gravity. If one does not obey it, he might fall down and die.

what law would that be?

God gave man free will and then man created evil when he started to obey the law of satan/matter.

nope,if God created man imperfect with an ability to sin than its God who is responsible for evil
www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/index.html click God

If there is no evil, we can not know what is good.

we wouldn't need to know it!
dont you think?

But in reality there is no good or bad, but only the divine.

next time someone you like gets hurt,sick or dies just keep repeating this to yourself.

Now, if we fully learn to know what good and bad is, they will both vanish.

thats the silliest statement yet.

Everything is written down, and it will happen just that way.

so what the use of praying?

www.objectivethought.com/atheism/carlin.html read the part about divine plan

evolution happens.

thats the only thing you have right

 

[surenderer]

I often think about how if they had forums a couple hundred years ago like these and someone were to post that one day people would be able to fly in the sky from one place to another (airplanes) or travel from one place to another at 100 miles per hour you gouys would laugh them off these forums.Yet when 786 posts that you cant understand God because your knowledge "aint there yet" you laugh at him. Can you prove that you know everything? I bet that person a couple hundred years ago thought they did....how are you guys any different?

 

[TheERK]

I will tell you the truth. God is God. He is like love. But there is no way for us to define God because he is beoynd this world. There is nothing which God could be compared to, so that he would become understandable.

If this is the case, then this is where your post should end. Everything you say after this, assuming it concerns God, can be dismissed as meaningless and/or inaccurate, if what I quoted is true.

 

[mis-t-highs]

I often think about how if they had forums a couple hundred years ago like these and someone were to post that one day people would be able to fly in the sky from one place to another (airplanes) or travel from one place to another at 100 miles per hour you gouys would laugh them off these forums.Yet when 786 posts that you cant understand God because your knowledge "aint there yet" you laugh at him. Can you prove that you know everything? I bet that person a couple hundred years ago thought they did....how are you guys any different?

but religious people have had a million years plus, to convince us and have'nt.
no scientist would have laughed, as they would believe in any possiblity, and man wished to fly in ancient greece, and thought it possible, but made mistakes. man has always strived to go further, but only religion has held him back.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

but religious people have had a million years plus, to convince us and have'nt.

You are slow learners, what can we do?

man has always strived to go further, but only religion has held him back.

Permit me to correct you here. Christianity might have, Not Islam. Especially concerning the flight attempts. 700 years before DaVinci conceived a way to Fly, a Muslim in Andalusia succeeded in his flight test. He ventured on this adventure beause of a verse in the Qur'an.

AR-RAHMAN (THE BENEFICENT, THE MERCY GIVING)
verse 55:33
YUSUFALI: O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!
PICKTHAL: O company of jinn and men, if ye have power to penetrate (all) regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate (them)! Ye will never penetrate them save with (Our) sanction.
SHAKIR: O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority.

:m:

 

[surenderer]

but religious people have had a million years plus, to convince us and have'nt.
no scientist would have laughed, as they would believe in any possiblity, and man wished to fly in ancient greece, and thought it possible, but made mistakes. man has always strived to go further, but only religion has held him back.

What kinda signs are you looking for? For example the last US space shuttle crash that happened had the 1st Israeli astronaunt of it and when it happened it crashed it exploded over Palestine,Texas. Now to a non-religious person the would call that a coincedence yet believers dont believe in coincedences because that would mean that God wasnt in control.But you tell me what are the odds of that event happening? Alotta believers would believe that that was a wake up call for Israeli's to slloowww dooowwnnnn And to back up Bruce Wayne's point,Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented, constructed and tested a flying machine in the 800's A.D. Roger Bacon learned of flying machines from Arabic references to Ibn Firnas' machine. The latter's invention antedates Bacon by 500 years and Da Vinci by some 700 years :m:

 

[path]

Permit me to correct you here. Christianity might have, Not Islam. Especially concerning the flight attempts.

Ahh that would explain how the muslim world has developed so much faster than the christian world in the last 700 years /SARCASM

 

[path]

AR-RAHMAN (THE BENEFICENT, THE MERCY GIVING)
verse 55:33
YUSUFALI: O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!
PICKTHAL: O company of jinn and men, if ye have power to penetrate (all) regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate (them)! Ye will never penetrate them save with (Our) sanction.
SHAKIR: O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority.

What does this have to do with anything? Wait let me guess it is one of those scientific miracles of the quran it is actually a blueprint for a 747

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Ahh that would explain how the muslim world has developed so much faster than the christian world in the last 700 years /SARCASM

What is the purpose of this post other than petty sarcasm, If I may ask?

Ironically, your contribution does make a point, but exactly the opposite of what you meant. It does explain how Muslim went backward since they disregarded religion.

Also let me correct something, "the christian world" started developing because it wasn't a christian world any longer.

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What does this have to do with anything? Wait let me guess it is one of those scientific miracles of the quran it is actually a blueprint for a 747

Path, are you childeren posting instead of you??

:m:

 

[mis-t-highs]

You are slow learners, what can we do?



Permit me to correct you here. Christianity might have, Not Islam. Especially concerning the flight attempts. 700 years before DaVinci conceived a way to Fly, a Muslim in Andalusia succeeded in his flight test. He ventured on this adventure beause of a verse in the Qur'an.

AR-RAHMAN (THE BENEFICENT, THE MERCY GIVING)
verse 55:33
YUSUFALI: O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!
PICKTHAL: O company of jinn and men, if ye have power to penetrate (all) regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate (them)! Ye will never penetrate them save with (Our) sanction.
SHAKIR: O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority.

:m:

can you prove that without using the qu'ran.

is there a documented history, or is it just hear say!!.

and the same question to you surrender.
thank you

 

[anonymous2]

You are slow learners, what can we do?



Permit me to correct you here. Christianity might have, Not Islam. Especially concerning the flight attempts. 700 years before DaVinci conceived a way to Fly, a Muslim in Andalusia succeeded in his flight test. He ventured on this adventure beause of a verse in the Qur'an.

AR-RAHMAN (THE BENEFICENT, THE MERCY GIVING)
verse 55:33
YUSUFALI: O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!
PICKTHAL: O company of jinn and men, if ye have power to penetrate (all) regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate (them)! Ye will never penetrate them save with (Our) sanction.
SHAKIR: O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority.

:m:

Even if I accept that history as true, I have to say, "so what?" When I read this verse, it seems to be talking about "two armies", of Jinn and men, which are evil. These same people in the Qur'an 55:35 "The flames of fire and smoke will be sent on you two, then you will not be able to defend yourselves."

I doubt it was even referring to space travel. I'm guessing it was referring to bad Jinns and bad men getting to heaven. Kind of like, "You think you can get to heaven by yourself? Then do so. But you can't without Our permission."

I suppose it could be interpreted as saying that eventually Allah will give men such authority, but it's not like nobody in ancient times ever thought of going into space, is it?

Also, what was the ancient understanding of this verse?

Of course, I could be wrong. I just don't see anything clear or convincing here.

 

[path]

What is the purpose of this post other than petty sarcasm, If I may ask?

What is the purpose of making a generalized hollow statement like

Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne
Permit me to correct you here. Christianity might have, Not Islam.

Ironically, your contribution does make a point, but exactly the opposite of what you meant. It does explain how Muslim went backward since they disregarded religion.

Nothing ironic about it. It is so nice to be able to always pull that dead rabbit out of your hat isn't it, nice but at the same time pathetic.

Also let me correct something, "the christian world" started developing because it wasn't a christian world any longer.

:m:

Wrong at the time of the Renaissance it was still very much christian. Secularization in the christian world has been a long slow process.

 

[path]

Path, are you childeren posting instead of you??

:m:

So I guess you aren't going to answer the question are you.

 

[anonymous2]

What kinda signs are you looking for? For example the last US space shuttle crash that happened had the 1st Israeli astronaunt of it and when it happened it crashed it exploded over Palestine,Texas. Now to a non-religious person the would call that a coincedence yet believers dont believe in coincedences because that would mean that God wasnt in control.But you tell me what are the odds of that event happening? Alotta believers would believe that that was a wake up call for Israeli's to slloowww dooowwnnnn And to back up Bruce Wayne's point,Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented, constructed and tested a flying machine in the 800's A.D. Roger Bacon learned of flying machines from Arabic references to Ibn Firnas' machine. The latter's invention antedates Bacon by 500 years and Da Vinci by some 700 years :m:

I had a reply, but the system ate it. I'll try again.

Can you show me from an official source that the space shuttle exploded *exactly* over Palestine Texas? Yes, I know there's a Palestine Texas. There is also an Alma (Alma is a name in the Book of Mormon), Athens, Bethel, Bethany, Carthage, China, Church Hill, Corpus Christi (body of Christ), Cross, Cuba, Delhi, Dublin, Earth, Edom, Egypt, English, Gay Hill, Gilchrist (meaning servant of Christ), Havana, Hebron, Holland, Homer, Huron, India, Ireland, Italy, Jericho, Joshua, Liverpool, London, Los Angeles, Lydia, Malta, Marathon, Mecca, Medina, Memphis, Mercury, Milan, Minerva, Monkstown, Moscow, Nazareth, Normandy, Norse, Paris, Scotland, Shepherd, Sudan, Sweden, Toledo, Trinidad, Trinity, Troy, Turkey, Venus, Woden-Texas.

Athens Texas, which is close to Palestine Texas, had space shuttle debris fall near it. The Toledo Bend Resevoir in Texas also had space shuttle debris fall near it. Cherokee County in Texas, and Woden Texas received debris.

Should we associate the shuttle disaster with Greece, Spain, American Indians, or a Norse god? After all, Woden was a Norse god, and there's a city in Texas by the name of Norse.

From what I've read, the shuttle exploded over Nacodoches County. Palestine is not in Nacodoches County, but rather Anderson County. Cherokee County separates them. And, the city of Woden is actually in Nacodoches County. That's more evidence for the Norse god connection.

There should be coincidences, even amazing coincidences. This is within the realm of statistical probability. Your argument that there is a connection between the Israeli astronaut dying and the city of Palestine Texas is kind of like this Christian argument I've read: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/t/tenmajorevents.htm

So, according to this site, should the United States support Israel against the Palestinians and not try to get Israel to give up land because of these disasters which are the "wrath of God?"

I'm guessing you'd say no, wouldn't you?

 

[Godless]

Hey Q thanks for link of George Carlin on Religion. That was hellarious.

LOL..

What768 the only part that I can agree with you in your whole argument is this: (God can only be You.)

U got that right!!!!.

I always knew I was GOD!!

Godless.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What is the purpose of making a generalized hollow statement like

You are right, I don't know what made me expect an intelligent contribution to the thred.

Wrong at the time of the Renaissance it was still very much christian. Secularization in the christian world has been a long slow process.

I know that christianity did not vanish in one day or at all. But it was rational thought versus Chrisitian doctrine. Rationality won, If christianity had persisted the way it was, Europe would still be in it's dark ages. And the Indian genocide might not have happened.

:m: