theist what do you think of this

[lightgigantic]

Cris

“
type one error
”
Why? People die and never return. There is nothing to indicate anything else.

you make the statement "every one dies" and make a superficial investigation (ie bereft of the knowledge of the qualities of the claimant, the qualities of the process of the claimant and the qualities of the result attained) of claims to the contrary - hence type one error

“
actually what i am chasing is for you to be introspective and examine the authority (the general principles) you apply to determine the truth behind the statement "every one dies" - its a kind of lead in to the fallibility of empiricism
”
And the alternative is believing fantasies are true. I don’t see that that is any kind of step forward.

i am not asking you to examine anything I say - i am asking you to examine what you say - namely what is the authority for your statement "everyone dies" since you can not obviously assert to having investigated all claims of mortality in all places for all history.

“
there are numerous claims made by saintly people and scriptures to the contrary - of course if you automatically throw such cases out, particularly without examining the premises, you have your classic type one error
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LG, they are pure fantasies based on an ancient past of incredible ignorance about how the universe functions.

I won't challenge that that is your opinion - I will challenge that you are ignorant of the qualities of th eperson making the claim, the qualtiies of the process that enable s the claim, and the qualities of the result arrived at through following the process

They have no more value now than asserting that the Lord of the Rings stories are true.

so this is your argument - once a writer published a book, that he intended to be a fiction. that book innvolved many personalities and characters that no one has apparently seen before - therefore all books that innvolve references to persons that no one has apparently seen before are fictious
Bythis logic, how would a new book on a recent anthropological discovery ever make its way onto the shelves in th e non fiction section?

You need to bring yourself up to date and stop trying to hold on to those past ignorant mystical religious fantasies that no longer have any value.

that will be difficult when most atheists resort to mud slinging and the remainder seem incapable of forming rational arguments - hardly more attractive to say the least ...

“
if you want to make credible claims of rationality you have to establish that you are not determining the nature of the probability water in an arid desert
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Look to yourself first since the evidence for anything supernatural at the moment is absolute zero, and your whole argument is dependent on it being true – and you accuse me of lack of credibility?

No - I am making claims to a process as the basis for authority - you are making claims to your opinions by on the authority of doctored evidence

 

[Medicine*Woman]

lightgigantic;1244379] you make the statement "every one dies" and make a superficial investigation (ie bereft of the knowledge of the qualities of the claimant, the qualities of the process of the claimant and the qualities of the result attained) of claims to the contrary-hence type one error

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M*W: There is nowhere to go after death. Life is all there is.

i am not asking you to examine anything I say-i am asking you to examine what you say-namely what is the authority for your statement "everyone dies" since you can not obviously assert to having investigated all claims of mortality in all places for all history.

*************
M*W: There is no heaven. There is no hell. All we've got is our lives in the present. There is no savior, and there is no salvation. Why should there be? All we hve is right now.

I won't challenge that is your opinion-I will challenge that you are ignorant of the qualities of the

*************
M*W: No problem. You simply do not understand atheism. It's not that you can't understand it, it's that you won't.

person making the claim, the qualtiies of the process that enable s the claim, and the qualities of the result arrived at through following the process

*************
M*W: I was a Christian once, but I learned that Chrfistianity was false. I grieved through my loss, and I abecame more knowledgeable from it. To believe in a god, and to belive in a savior, is false. They simply do not exist. I used to believe they did, but now I don't. Gods and saviors are impossible.

so this is your argument-once a writer published a book, that he intended to be a fiction. that book innvolved many personalities and characters that no one has apparently seen before-therefore all books that innvolve references to persons that no one has apparently seen before are fictious Bythis logic, how would a new book on a recent anthropological discovery ever make its way onto the shelves in th e non fiction section

*************
M*W: I've published books, but I didn't lie. Publishing a book is nothing. It's what you have to prove that is the important thing. There is no god. There is no savior. This is my belief, and this is my testimony.

that will be difficult when most atheists resort to mud slinging and the remainder seem incapable of forming rational arguments-hardly more attractive to say the least...

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M*W: Atheists have no reason to resort toi "mud slinging." "Rational arguments" are not understood by Christians. Athiests believe in logic and reason.

No-I am making claims to a process as the basis for author-you are making claims to your opinions by on the authority of doctored evidence/

*************
M*W: My "claims" are not my own. My "claims" are believed by atheists everywhere. You believe, and I don't. It's that simple. The qauestion is, why do you believe, and I don't? Can you answer that? I tthink not. There are two sides to every coin. The onus is on you to prove a god and a savior exists. So far, I have not seen any proof of it. If you can prove it to me, then maybe I would believe. But, trust me, I've been around for 57 years, and I was a Christian at one time, and I've been to the holy sites, and I've prayed like a fiend, and I can tell you from the bottom of my failing heart, that no god nor savior exists. We are all we've got. Case closed.

 

[lightgigantic]

“
lightgigantic;1244379] you make the statement "every one dies" and make a superficial investigation (ie bereft of the knowledge of the qualities of the claimant, the qualities of the process of the claimant and the qualities of the result attained) of claims to the contrary-hence type one error
”
*************
M*W: There is nowhere to go after death. Life is all there is.

a frog that lives in a well has a certain perception on the nature of expansiveness of bodies of water also

i am not asking you to examine anything I say-i am asking you to examine what you say-namely what is the authority for your statement "everyone dies" since you can not obviously assert to having investigated all claims of mortality in all places for all history.

*************
M*W: There is no heaven. There is no hell. All we've got is our lives in the present. There is no savior, and there is no salvation. Why should there be? All we hve is right now.

one day a frog friend visits him from abroad and tells him that he has seen the pacific ocean "How big is it compared to my well?" he asks "Three times bigger than mine? Maybe even ten times?"

I won't challenge that is your opinion-I will challenge that you are ignorant of the qualities of the

*************
M*W: No problem. You simply do not understand atheism. It's not that you can't understand it, it's that you won't.

if you could do something other than making confidence statements that can't even make th e grade as tentative claims what to speak of evidence,perhaps it could be easier to make the chan

ge
“
person making the claim, the qualtiies of the process that enable s the claim, and the qualities of the result arrived at through following the process
”
*************
M*W: I was a Christian once, but I learned that Chrfistianity was false.

sometimes people go to university and they fail - success in applied knowledge goes beyond mere official "enrolment" - either you weren't sharp enough to make the grade or you were studying under the authority of bogus teachers

I grieved through my loss, and I abecame more knowledgeable from it. To believe in a god, and to belive in a savior, is false. They simply do not exist. I used to believe they did, but now I don't. Gods and saviors are impossible.

so far all you have established is that you once identified yourself as a christian - theistic elaborations on the nature of spiritual performance, at least the ones I am familiar with, go into more detail than that

“
so this is your argument-once a writer published a book, that he intended to be a fiction. that book innvolved many personalities and characters that no one has apparently seen before-therefore all books that innvolve references to persons that no one has apparently seen before are fictious Bythis logic, how would a new book on a recent anthropological discovery ever make its way onto the shelves in th e non fiction section
”
*************
M*W: I've published books, but I didn't lie. Publishing a book is nothing. It's what you have to prove that is the important thing. There is no god. There is no savior. This is my belief, and this is my testimony.

this says nothing about the credibility of scripture

“
that will be difficult when most atheists resort to mud slinging and the remainder seem incapable of forming rational arguments-hardly more attractive to say the least...
”
*************
M*W: Atheists have no reason to resort toi "mud slinging." "Rational arguments" are not understood by Christians. Athiests believe in logic and reason.

it seems rational arguments are also lost to you as well - I have already told you several times today that I am not a christian yet you seem to be incessantly projecting your short comings upon me because I am a theist

“
No-I am making claims to a process as the basis for author-you are making claims to your opinions by on the authority of doctored evidence/
”
*************
M*W: My "claims" are not my own. My "claims" are believed by atheists everywhere.

lol - hardly surprising

You believe, and I don't. It's that simple. The qauestion is, why do you believe, and I don't? Can you answer that? I tthink not.

the high school drop out also doesn't believe in the electron

There are two sides to every coin. The onus is on you to prove a god and a savior exists. So far, I have not seen any proof of it.

before one can perceive evidence one must have a sufficient body of theoretical knowledge underneath one - that's what distinguishes a forensic investigator from a run of the mill police detective

If you can prove it to me, then maybe I would believe.

its a question of applied knowledge - if you don't apply the process, you don't get to know (thats how all applied knowledge functions BTW)

But, trust me, I've been around for 57 years, and I was a Christian at one time, and I've been to the holy sites, and I've prayed like a fiend, and I can tell you from the bottom of my failing heart, that no god nor savior exists. We are all we've got. Case closed.

its not uncommon to encounter a theist who has failed due to a lack of philosophical training - christianity, particularly the fundamental variety, tends to capitalize on this by preying upon people's material desires for fulfillment as an impetus to swell congregations - you should ask yourself these questions
- what is the relationship between god and th e living entity?
- what is the relationship between the living entity and the material world?
- Why does t heliving entity experience suffering in the material world?
-What are the unique qualities that god possesses that no other living entity possesses?
-What are the unique qualities that a person who knows god possesses?
- What are the obligational duties that exist between a person who knows god and a person who is desiring to know god?