The Word, Creation, and Quantum

John99 said:
Humans associate sound with vibrations. But when a jet breaks the sound barrier you can also see it.
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Which is okay because a wave can lead to something physical..... so your point?

Peace be unto you ;)
 
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John99 said:
Ok, but i still say that wave is just a term.
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Obviously its just a term. But the same term will apply regardless. They have to make a word to communicate the concept at least.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
Not wanting to get too far OT but i dont uinderstand why people throw the term science around either.

One person here declares his belief in science under his name. He happens to be an Atheist, but for the life of me i have no idea what people are talking about when they use the term.

I suppose he would be declring his belief in Darwinism. If i went out and dissected a frog, is that science? Only if i use a scalpel.
 
John99 said:
Not wanting to get too far OT but i dont uinderstand why people throw the term science around either.

One person here declares his belief in science under his name. He happens to be an Atheist, but for the life of me i have no idea what people are talking about when they use the term.

I suppose he would be declring his belief in Darwinism. If i went out and dissected a frog, is that science? Only if i use a scalpel.
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Lol. I tried to bring up something of that note in the 'God of Science' thread. Different 'beliefs' (faiths) are attached to science and then the package is passed on as 'science'.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
Well if speech is a wave- and everything has indeed come from that wave- It is 'speaking into existence'- The question is where did that 'wave' come from? So I would think that quantum mechanics has shown that 'wave' (speech) leads to 'existence'.
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Sound waves are not quantum phenomena.

And that's not the silliest feature of your approach.

The universe was not brought into being by some triviality of anthropomorphic magic, and nothing in the Quran has anything to do with it.
 
iceaura said:
Sound waves are not quantum phenomena.
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Although I've not said that 'sound' led to creation, I was simply drawing parallel between a wave and its power to create... And by the way everything is a quantum phenomena as long as everything is composed of quantum particles or are a result thereof.

The universe was not brought into being by some triviality of anthropomorphic magic, and nothing in the Quran has anything to do with it.
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I know you were there when it all happened. :D

Peace be unto you ;)
 
John99 said:
But when a jet breaks the sound barrier you can also see it.
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No you can't except under certain atmospheric conditions, and if those conditions are right then a similar shockwave is visible at speeds significantly less than that of sound.

786 said:
I was simply drawing parallel between a wave and its power to create...
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What "power to create" does a wave have?
 
Dywyddyr said:
No you can't except under certain atmospheric conditions, and if those conditions are right then a similar shockwave is visible at speeds significantly less than that of sound.


What "power to create" does a wave have?
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What wave are you talking about? I'm not talking about sound waves...

I'm talking about how waves are fundamental which end up into 'something' so 'waves' have to ability (power) to have something exist.

In essence a wave leads to an actual existence. For example if the string theory is correct, then all the forces exist because of those string vibrations (wave).

Electromagnetism, a fundamental force of nature, is basically seen as a wave at various frequencies.... And didn't all these 'forces' come together to create everything? Even 'energy' can be represented as a 'wave'.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
What wave are you talking about?
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Whatever wave you're talking about.

I'm talking about how waves are fundamental which end up into 'something' so 'waves' have to ability (power) to have something exist.
In essence a wave leads to an actual existence. For example if the string theory is correct, then all the forces exist because of those string vibrations (wave).
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Nope, in essence all the forces exist because the strings do. If the strings didn't exist then they couldn't vibrate. The waves just add variation.

Electromagnetism, a fundamental force of nature, is basically seen as a wave at various frequencies.... And didn't all these 'forces' come together to create everything?
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Where did electromagnetism come from?
It wasn't there at the start.
 
Dywyddyr said:
Nope, in essence all the forces exist because the strings do. If the strings didn't exist then they couldn't vibrate. The waves just add variation.
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A string that doesn't vibrate produces nothing. So the wave indeed induce the 'creation' of things. One would have to argue if a string can exist without a wave from the beginning, but none-the-less without the wave nothing would exist as a static vibrationless string produces nothing.

Where did electromagnetism come from?
It wasn't there at the start.
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I was just trying to say that the fundamental forces, string theory, and everything still requires a 'wave' for there to be any effect.

Obviously a 'wave' alone, at least in nature, couldn't possibly create things, there would have to be 'something' that the wave acts on- that is a natural wave.

All I was trying to show was the parallel between a 'wave' and a 'command'- No one will argue that God is making 'natural' sound waves, when in fact he isn't natural. So I can't say that his 'wave' of 'Be' is like a normal wave. So simply using a natural wave as we understand them of course will not explain everything, but still in principal without the waves there would be no effect.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
A string that doesn't vibrate produces nothing. So the wave indeed induce the 'creation' of things. One would have to argue if a string can exist without a wave from the beginning, but none-the-less without the wave nothing would exist as a static vibrationless string produces nothing.
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And you can't have the vibration without the string.
The wave is no more fundamental than the string.

All I was trying to show was the parallel between a 'wave' and a 'command'- No one will argue that God is making 'natural' sound waves, when in fact he isn't natural. So I can't say that his 'wave' of 'Be' is like a normal wave. So simply using a natural wave as we understand them of course will not explain everything, but still in principal without the waves there would be no effect.
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Yes, one more totally specious attempted link between religion and science.
 
786 said:
The universe was not brought into being by some triviality of anthropomorphic magic, and nothing in the Quran has anything to do with it.
”
I know you were there when it all happened.
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I'm here when the fundies start invoking magic and pondering over the interpretations of their holy books. The Quran should be read by candlelight, for maximum effect.
786 said:
And by the way everything is a quantum phenomena as long as everything is composed of quantum particles or are a result thereof.
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That is false, starting with the observation that there are no "quantum particles".
786 said:
A string that doesn't vibrate produces nothing.
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Either there is no string that doesn't vibrate, or the ones that don't nevertheless produce something. Depending.
786 said:
All I was trying to show was the parallel between a 'wave' and a 'command'
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We got that, trust us.
 
Nevermind, you guys can't seem to think outside of 'natural' anything. No reason to continue with the 'string' or 'wave'. As it seems a natural wave has you tied down. Apparently a parallel for you means a 1:1 relationship.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
The wave on a string doesn't create anything: all it does is differentiate one string type from another.
The "string PLUS wave" is a "building block".
There is no parallel.
 
doreen said:
That is false, starting with the observation that there are no "quantum particles".
”
It seems to be a term used by physicists....
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Ah, sure, I should have qualified the statement rather than just put the term in quotes - there are no such particles as 786 invokes there, unless I have seriously misunderstood him.

Particles of quantum, that is.
 
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