The Trump Presidency

[iceaura]

Ideology has changed, has gone sideways, incorporating things few if any republicans would have considered just a few years ago, retracting free trade, claiming to retract the military, making insane demands like building the wall and putting Muslims on registries while at the same time saying gay marriage is a done deal.

Standard pattern since Nixon. They have to churn the crazy stock for the same reason they have to change their name every few years.

tactics have changed, now they have gone even further at denying facts, claiming now they have alternative facts, even on the smallest subject like whose inauguration was bigger

A step farther down the same old road.
Limbaugh has been handing out alternative facts since 1992, Fox since 1996. Remember Glenn Beck? Joe the Plumber? Sara Palin? Jeff Gannon? How long a list do you need?

Obama was born in Hawaii, Saddam Hussein did not harbor or finance or in any way help the perps of 9/11, the US did not find WMDs in Iraq, the Jews did not get advance warning of 9/11 and the Muslims did not get together by the thousands to dance around celebrating it in New Jersey, neither Twin Tower fell at free fall speed, cigarettes cause lung cancer, abortions do not sterilize and women do get pregnant from rape, Noah's Flood did not happen and the world is billions of years old, Obamacare never included death panels and did not cover illegal immigrants, the first trillion dollar deficit ever run by the US government was under W, the Clintons did not run a cocaine smuggling operation out of Arkansas while Bill was Governor, no group of climate researchers sent each other emails on how to falsify their data to show global warming, etc.

Hell, I'm going to bury this one. Here's a sample of Reagan, as reported by an actual journalist of the kind you have never seen with their own show on a major TV station: https://books.google.com/books?id=u...reagan "oh i don't think that's true"&f=false

online presence has changed, now run by trolls!

Breitbart News was founded by a troll in 2007. Two years before the name change to "Tea Party", eight before "Alt Right" emerged as a likely new name. And it wasn't the first. The Drudge Report launched its email "service" in 1996, has been slandering decent people in the service of rightwing authoritarian agendas ever since. You're looking at an online presence that has been pretty much exactly what it is now for twenty years or more - pretty much since "online presence" was invented.

media alliance has changed, brietbart is in charge, not fox, fox has been out foxed!

If growth and consolidation is what you mean by "change".
Both Breitbart and Fox are still allied with the same old same old, and both of them have seen their influence grow and spread as their common backing faction gains political clout - CNN is now Respectable Fox, ABC is Apprentice Fox, MSNBC is Wannabe Fox, top level and well vetted Fox media figures, especially female, find ready employment anywhere they want to set up shop. The Center, even, let alone anything hinting at Left, has been replaced by Fox pov, even Fox personnel, and marginalized. If Rachel Maddow were to get hit by a bus, her replacement wouldn't even be as far Left as the Eisenhower Republican she has always claimed, correctly, she is. Meanwhile, Bannon is managing communications (the central matter of politics) for the Executive Branch of the Federal Government.

You know how people become people like me? By being able to remember from twelve to fucking noon. And if we can't, looking it up.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Standard pattern since Nixon. They have to churn the crazy stock for the same reason they have to change their name every few years.

This is significantly worse then nixon, nixon was moderate, trump is nationalist.

A step farther down the same old road.

Oh I thought you side he was the same, even middle, now your agreeing with me that have gotten worse? The Birthers are literally in charge now!

Breitbart News was founded by a troll in 2007. Two years before the name change to "Tea Party", eight before "Alt Right" emerged as a likely new name. And it wasn't the first. The Drudge Report launched its email "service" in 1996, has been slandering decent people in the service of rightwing authoritarian agendas ever since. You're looking at an online presence that has been pretty much exactly what it is now for twenty years or more - pretty much since "online presence" was invented.

yeah so? I'm not talking about their founding, I'm talking about how they have GROWN since then to being in charge of the republican party and the whole country!

Both Breitbart and Fox are still allied with the same old same old, and both of them have seen their influence grow and spread as their common backing faction gains political clout - CNN is now Respectable Fox, ABC is Apprentice Fox, MSNBC is Wannabe Fox, top level and well vetted Fox media figures, especially female, find ready employment anywhere they want to set up shop. The Center, even, let alone anything hinting at Left, has been replaced by Fox pov, even Fox personnel, and marginalized. If Rachel Maddow were to get hit by a bus, her replacement wouldn't even be as far Left as the Eisenhower Republican she has always claimed, correctly, she is. Meanwhile, Bannon is managing communications (the central matter of politics) for the Executive Branch of the Federal Government.

I already talked to you about this before, but if you mean they are in competition with each other by "allied" you would be correct. Everyone wants a piece of that conservative viewership, especially the older cable/tv based news with demographics average age of 70. Breitbart is the only one getting the younger conservative demographic, much to fox's worry.

In the newer online news media we also have your salon, your huffingtonpost, your gawker tumors, left wing media that try to grasp and keep increasing regressive hugbox sjw people like tiassa and iceaura and bells. These media and its audience have help turn the left into useless codpieces that only help to galvanize the rightwing.

You know how people become people like me? By being able to remember from twelve to fucking noon.

Cute non-sequitur.

So tell us all again who you voted for in the primary?

 

[Bells]

This ended up in my newsfeed. From right wing news site Redstate.. Under the title "'President Kim Jong Trump Proclaims Day Of His Inauguration ‘National Day Of Patriotic Devotion’"

What fresh hell is this?

Seriously? President Trump has officially proclaimed January 20, 2017—the day of his inauguration—as the National Day of Patriotic Devotion. It’s in the Federal Register. I’ve got nothing against patriotism but this is exactly what we don’t need right now while all the brittle leftists are expecting to get rounded up for interment at any moment. Half the country is on high alert thinking that he’s a Russian puppet and Trump makes a proclamation that sounds like something a tin pot dictator would declare as part of a plan to root out disloyal subjects.​

I thought it was a joke at first. But it isn't.

He actually declared his inauguration date as the "National Day of Patriotic Devotion".

It is in the Federal Register as such. Full text of the proclamation can be found here.

So all you detractors better start showing some level of "patriotic devotion"!

And you better start praying for your Constitution. The right have turned it into a religious text.

More from The Atlantic, who have also picked up on this story and at last count, so have other media outlets, about just how terrible this sounds and how this comes across.

"What fresh hell" indeed..

 

[Randwolf]

The wingnuts are really getting into the zone with this stuff now - Charles Krauthammer on White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's performance today:

"He got a second chance to make a first impression. And he did very well."
https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...-donald-trumps-white-house-staff-starting-out

The alternative facts speak for themselves...

 

[iceaura]

I already talked to you about this before, but if you mean they are in competition with each other by "allied" you would be correct.

I mean they serve the same faction. They back the same cause. They're on the same team. And they are coordinated in everything from specific historical revisions to vocabulary repeated in talking points.

I'm talking about how they have GROWN since then to being in charge of the republican party and the whole country!

They've been in charge of the Republican Party, consolidating their hold, since 1980 - after a delay caused by their first disaster. Gingrich purged the last of the dangerous Congressional dissidents around 1994.

They have grown in cleverness and in stature, and in favor with God and man, but they are the same faction they were then. They didn't change, they won.

"You know how people become people like me? By being able to remember from twelve to fucking noon."
Cute non-sequitur.

You keep believing that. But the next time you fill an entire post with post 159's level of born-yesterday sillyass, complete with amnesia sucked in straight from your wingnut sources, think about how you haven't actually checked any of it.

The only reason you think this Trump stuff is new, is because the 4chans and alt-rights and Fox-addled CNNs told you it was new, and you believe what they say in the face of what you see. It's not new. Its roots are in the American Civil War. Its future, barring effective resistance, is in every history book of fallen empire and madhouse emperor you've ever read.

 

[iceaura]

He actually declared his inauguration date as the "National Day of Patriotic Devotion".

George HW Bush christened his administration the "New World Order" - after being a combat pilot in WWII.

There's nothing secret about what these guys are doing. They're operating in daylight, in the open. It's exactly what it looks like.

 

[joepistole]

It lo

This ended up in my newsfeed. From right wing news site Redstate.. Under the title "'President Kim Jong Trump Proclaims Day Of His Inauguration ‘National Day Of Patriotic Devotion’"

What fresh hell is this?

Seriously? President Trump has officially proclaimed January 20, 2017—the day of his inauguration—as the National Day of Patriotic Devotion. It’s in the Federal Register. I’ve got nothing against patriotism but this is exactly what we don’t need right now while all the brittle leftists are expecting to get rounded up for interment at any moment. Half the country is on high alert thinking that he’s a Russian puppet and Trump makes a proclamation that sounds like something a tin pot dictator would declare as part of a plan to root out disloyal subjects.​

I thought it was a joke at first. But it isn't.

He actually declared his inauguration date as the "National Day of Patriotic Devotion".

It is in the Federal Register as such. Full text of the proclamation can be found here.

So all you detractors better start showing some level of "patriotic devotion"!

And you better start praying for your Constitution. The right have turned it into a religious text.

More from The Atlantic, who have also picked up on this story and at last count, so have other media outlets, about just how terrible this sounds and how this comes across.

"What fresh hell" indeed..

I don't think most Americans know that tidbit, because it hasn't been well reported.

 

[Quantum Quack]

It lo

I don't think most Americans know that tidbit, because it hasn't been well reported.

neither are they aware of this titbit...

"Introduced in House (01/03/2017)
American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2017

This bill repeals the United Nations Participation Act of 1945 and other specified related laws.

The bill requires: (1) the President to terminate U.S. membership in the United Nations (U.N.), including any organ, specialized agency, commission, or other formally affiliated body; and (2) closure of the U.S. Mission to the United Nations.

The bill prohibits: (1) the authorization of funds for the U.S. assessed or voluntary contribution to the U.N., (2) the authorization of funds for any U.S. contribution to any U.N. military or peacekeeping operation, (3) the expenditure of funds to support the participation of U.S. Armed Forces as part of any U.N. military or peacekeeping operation, (4) U.S. Armed Forces from serving under U.N. command, and (5) diplomatic immunity for U.N. officers or employees."​

src: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193

.and if you think that is scary... wait... there is more...

 

[Bells]

The US will become a form of a pariah State, like South Africa was during the period of apartheid. Only this time, it will be self imposed as Trump and the GOP drive the country into a form of isolation fueled by overtly patriotic nationalism.

 

[James R]

 

[wellwisher]

America under Trump is going to turn inward and reinvent itself; phoenix. Trump is trying to neutralize the division, that the left has created in the country, by giving all the citizen a common identity and goal; patriotism and America first. He said whether you are black, brown or white, we all bleed red. Currently, the left has divided the country into various voter blocks who all are bought and paid for with special advantages, for their group, which they call rights; women's right, gay rights, black rights, etc., These are not rights, since they do not apply to all. These are entitlements, which divide the country, at the expense of the middle class.

In Trump's speech on election day it said he is going to shift power from the government back to the people. During the reign of Obama, those on Wall Street did the best. The rich got richer, moving jobs overseas, and the middle class shrunk and was stagnant. Also government in Washington DC, grew and was overpaid, with three of the five richest counties in USA, now near Washington DC. All that skim is due to special interest lobbyists. This is going to shift back to the people to make the government the public servant once again. This is how you unify the government; servants not masters. This is another part of the transformation. Instead of a few insiders, bribing the world, for their own special interest, the money and power will return to the people so they can decide if this is to their benefit.

The United Nations is a money pit for the US, who covers most of the tab. The original intent was good, but now it is composed of a majority of third world dictators who lecture and the US on humans rights, lobby for freebies, based on data they get from the leftist philosophy and media. The new America does not need even more middlemen,that rules over the citizens of the USA, based on leftist lobbyist who pad their wallets.

The money saved by being more isolationists, will go into infrastructure spending and building up manufacturing in the USA, instead of bleeding out to support the word. This benefits all the people of the US and not just the rich and powerful in Washington. The rich and powerful benefit by the status quo. Once America is renewed again, then they will become extroverted, but with different relationships for the same things. These new relationship will reflect the will of the power and not just special interests with their own agenda at the expense of the people.

 

[Kittamaru]

Wellwisher, you are utterly nuts if you actually believe any of that.

What will happen instead is our Trade Partners will go to greener pastures (probably China) and we will be left holding our limp dicks going "but but but where did out money go!?!"

We are an interconnected world... isolationism doesn't work unless you can be self sufficient - guess what, we are reliant on other countries for resources we don't have, such as Lithium and other rare-earth Metals that are key components of our commonplace electronics...

Unless you know some form of alchemy, we NEED those other countries, and shutting ourselves off from them will backfire in a spectacular way...

 

[Bells]

The money saved by being more isolationists, will go into infrastructure spending and building up manufacturing in the USA, instead of bleeding out to support the word.

You won't be saving money.

Instead, you will be forced to spend it. Businesses that trade overseas, will find themselves having to pay tariffs and taxes to trade, since Trump is pretty much going through and wiping the trade agreements you had with other countries. His withdrawing the US from the TPP, for example, will simply open the door to Asian and Oceanic countries trading more with China and Russia than with the US. And that will be to the detriment of the US and US manufacturing employment. And believe me, smaller Asian countries will trade with countries like China and Russia instead of the US if the US and Trump is going to attempt to bully them.

His attempt to force businesses, be it those based in the US to those based in other countries, to deliver manufacturing jobs or face "yuge" tariffs in the US is ridiculous.

He is literally trying to force businesses to fulfill his campaign promises, while being incapable of understanding that manufacturing jobs, those closed down factors, will not return or reopen. If they did, they would not be employing that many people, since so much of this type of work, particularly in the motor vehicle industry, is done by machines and robots and not by people. His attempts to bully companies like Toyota into opening factories in the US will also not result in a gain in employment for that very reason and he is threatening US business interests in attempting to bully them into opening more factories in the US instead of in countries where the labor market and wage rates would allow them to keep trading and keep manufacturing parts in the US.

What? Are you so naive to believe that these companies are going to open new factories in the US and actually employ tens of thousands of people the old fashion way? Or will they just take the benefits he is offering them and simply have machines do the work with a skeleton staff and pocket the profits and the change?

Trump's failure to understand that the US is a part of the global market and economy and instead, trying to isolate the US will harm the US.

It won't create more jobs. On the contrary. It will result in a loss of employment.

Farmers, for example, will suffer as a result of his bully tactics and small businesses will fold if they cannot contract cheaper labor in countries like Mexico to make their components for their products..

This benefits all the people of the US and not just the rich and powerful in Washington.

Trump's Government appointments are made up of the wealthy and the rich.

Trump himself outsources manufacturing for his products to countries like Mexico, Bangladesh and China. The hypocrisy cannot be overstated at present.

His overt protectionism goes against the very nature of 'capitalism'. His manner of dealing with trade and employment is overtly paternalistic. How Republicans who believe in an open market and free trade can support his actions is beyond ridiculous. It is not going to help America. It will hurt the US.

The rich and powerful benefit by the status quo. Once America is renewed again, then they will become extroverted, but with different relationships for the same things.

Renewed again?

You are in the process of taking a giant step backwards in every sense of the word.

You are literally in the process of being considered a pariah State and countries like China and Russia will fill the void. Those jobs you think are going to flood into the US will not come to the US. Instead, major employers will suffer as a result and will lay off workers to compensate.

These new relationship will reflect the will of the power and not just special interests with their own agenda at the expense of the people.

The delusion is strong in you.

 

[origin]

President Trump (oops threw up a bit in my mouth) had his first official meeting with the leaders of congress and lied his ass off. Wow, what a shock.

 

[joepistole]

neither are they aware of this titbit...

"Introduced in House (01/03/2017)
American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2017

This bill repeals the United Nations Participation Act of 1945 and other specified related laws.

The bill requires: (1) the President to terminate U.S. membership in the United Nations (U.N.), including any organ, specialized agency, commission, or other formally affiliated body; and (2) closure of the U.S. Mission to the United Nations.

The bill prohibits: (1) the authorization of funds for the U.S. assessed or voluntary contribution to the U.N., (2) the authorization of funds for any U.S. contribution to any U.N. military or peacekeeping operation, (3) the expenditure of funds to support the participation of U.S. Armed Forces as part of any U.N. military or peacekeeping operation, (4) U.S. Armed Forces from serving under U.N. command, and (5) diplomatic immunity for U.N. officers or employees."​

src: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193

.and if you think that is scary... wait... there is more...

This is a standard operating fare for for the American right wing. They don't like the United Nations. So I'm not surprised. This is kinda like Obamacare with them.

 

[joepistole]

President Trump (oops threw up a bit in my mouth) had his first official meeting with the leaders of congress and lied his ass off. Wow, what a shock.

When has Trump not lied his ass off? Now that would be newsworthy!

 

[Tiassa]

The delusion is strong in you.

Actually, I've decided that since Wellwisher is a Republican message machine, the GOP can have him.

That is to say, I now hold all Republicans and conservatives accountable for what Wellwisher says. I mean, let's face it, as delusional as his posts are, all he's doing is reciting the Republican delusion.

So I say let's hold Republicans and conservatives accountable.

For instance, any conservative deigning to post at Sciforums now faces the additional burden of having to answer for their ilk; until one of them can justify our soulless, antichristian, anti-American, freedom-hating, racist, misogynist, misanthropic, closet case Republican talking point machine, they will be expected to try. If conservatives are going to inflict that kind of stupidity and unkindness on any community, they ought to answer for their cruelty.

It will be like Trump advocates lining up to tell us all they didn't vote for Trump. Suddenly the shape of conservatism at Sciforums will change. Either they aren't, or he isn't; we'll find out which.

 

[Kittamaru]

Actually, I've decided that since Wellwisher is a Republican message machine, the GOP can have him.

That is to say, I now hold all Republicans and conservatives accountable for what Wellwisher says. I mean, let's face it, as delusional as his posts are, all he's doing is reciting the Republican delusion.

So I say let's hold Republicans and conservatives accountable.

For instance, any conservative deigning to post at Sciforums now faces the additional burden of having to answer for their ilk; until one of them can justify our soulless, antichristian, anti-American, freedom-hating, racist, misogynist, misanthropic, closet case Republican talking point machine, they will be expected to try. If conservatives are going to inflict that kind of stupidity and unkindness on any community, they ought to answer for their cruelty.

It will be like Trump advocates lining up to tell us all they didn't vote for Trump. Suddenly the shape of conservatism at Sciforums will change. Either they aren't, or he isn't; we'll find out which.

We could always pull a Sylvester and just dump all of WellWishers posts into a single thread

 

[Sarkus]

...which they call rights; women's right, gay rights, black rights, etc., These are not rights, since they do not apply to all. These are entitlements, which divide the country, at the expense of the middle class.

Hmmm. Can you actually name some "gay rights"? Let's see: to engage in same-sex activity? Yep, that's a right they have... and guess what: it's a right you also have. Okay, they have the right to recognition of same-sex unions... and guess what: so does everyone else. Another is the right to same-sex marriage... and guess what... So do you and everyone else. Another right: serve openly in the military, a right that even you do (non-sexual-orientation issues notwithstanding). Then there's the right not to be discriminated against for sexual orientation. Do you have that right, wellwisher? does everyone else in the US? Yes they do.
What you fail to understand is that these rights that you deem to be entitlements are fundamentally the right not to be discriminated against for race, gender, sexual orientation, to put them back on the same footing with regards their rights as others have enjoyed uninterrupted. They are not getting anything extra, just what others have already been enjoying.
So enough with this rights/entitlement nonsense.


As for the rest, do you honestly think isolationism is going to "make America great"? No. It will put up the costs of goods due to more expensive labour and tariffs, which will put a squeeze on the poor and the middle-class, meaning labour rates will need to rise, which puts costs up, and thus the inflationary cycle begins.
The only people protected will be those already well off, such as Trump and his brigade.

And do you honestly think Trump has the nous to turn around the country 's economy?
(Per businessinsider.com) in the past 27 years Trump has seen his wealth grow by c.300%.
Certainly not a bad return until you see warren Buffett at c.2,900%, Carl Icahn at 2,100%, and heck, even the S&P 500 grew 713% during that time.
That's right, trump's wealth grew less than half than had he simply invested in that index.
Yeah, a deal maker he may be, but a good one??? Time will tell.

 

[joepistole]

America under Trump is going to turn inward and reinvent itself; phoenix. Trump is trying to neutralize the division, that the left has created in the country, by giving all the citizen a common identity and goal; patriotism and America first. He said whether you are black, brown or white, we all bleed red. Currently, the left has divided the country into various voter blocks who all are bought and paid for with special advantages, for their group, which they call rights; women's right, gay rights, black rights, etc., These are not rights, since they do not apply to all. These are entitlements, which divide the country, at the expense of the middle class.

This is a consistent theme with folks like you, and it's completely irrational. You think if you burn down the place, somehow, magically, everything will be better. That isn't always the case. In fact, it's rarely the case, e.g. post WW I Germany.

In Trump's speech on election day it said he is going to shift power from the government back to the people. During the reign of Obama, those on Wall Street did the best. The rich got richer, moving jobs overseas, and the middle class shrunk and was stagnant. Also government in Washington DC, grew and was overpaid, with three of the five richest counties in USA, now near Washington DC. All that skim is due to special interest lobbyists. This is going to shift back to the people to make the government the public servant once again. This is how you unify the government; servants not masters. This is another part of the transformation. Instead of a few insiders, bribing the world, for their own special interest, the money and power will return to the people so they can decide if this is to their benefit.

Trump has said a lot of things which have been proven to be wrong. There's nothing new there. Trump has filled his cabinet and closest advisers with billionaires and lobbyists: the very people he has railed about on the campaign trail.

The rich always get richer, and there is nothing Trump has done which will change that fact. His tax cuts program is the same old Republican tax cut for the rich. Trickle down has never worked, and we have decades to data to prove it, e.g. Sam Brownback in Kansas. And actually, we have facts. We have data, during Obama's presidency, unlike his Republican predecessor, government employment hasn't grown. Actually, the data has shown government has grown more under Republican administration than under Democratic administrations.

The United Nations is a money pit for the US, who covers most of the tab. The original intent was good, but now it is composed of a majority of third world dictators who lecture and the US on humans rights, lobby for freebies, based on data they get from the leftist philosophy and media. The new America does not need even more middlemen,that rules over the citizens of the USA, based on leftist lobbyist who pad their wallets.

Again, unfortunately for you and your Republican cohorts, that too simply isn't true. Membership dues are assessed based on percent of GDP and based on that, the US pays a little less than a quarter of the UN's budget. That's far from "most". Now 30 years ago, your assertion would be true; 30 years ago the US funded most of the tab. But that's no longer the case. The most recent UN Budget was a little under 3 billion dollars, so that makes the UN a pittance for the US. For some perspective, that's a fraction of the cost of one B2 Bomber.

The reason the UN was created was to prevent wars, and it together with the many other institutions created by the US and her allies after WW II has been very successful in that regard. Humanity has never known a more peaceful period. I'd say the US investment in the United Nations has paid off, and paid off well. Since the UN we haven't seen global warfare. I'd say that's a good thing. http://www.npr.org/2016/07/16/48631...inker-says-the-world-is-becoming-less-violent

The money saved by being more isolationists, will go into infrastructure spending and building up manufacturing in the USA, instead of bleeding out to support the word. This benefits all the people of the US and not just the rich and powerful in Washington. The rich and powerful benefit by the status quo. Once America is renewed again, then they will become extroverted, but with different relationships for the same things. These new relationship will reflect the will of the power and not just special interests with their own agenda at the expense of the people.

Where is your evidence that isolationism saves money? When has isolationism worked? It certainly didn't work for China. It didn't work for Japan, and it hasn't worked for the United States. Again, it's those nasty little facts again, isolationism has never worked for anyone. It doesn't save money. In fact, it and it's cousin, protectionism, are very expensive, e.g. Smoot-Hawley Act. When the US practiced isolationist policies, it was involved in two world wars. Common sense and history have clearly shown trying to wall yourself off from the world is a failed strategy.