The Trump Presidency

[Jeeves]

No Doubt , trump is a mean mean man .

Indeed. but he's the product, not the cause. He literally doesn't matter - and you can tell him i said so. In fact, i hope a lot of people tell him so. Like holy water for a devil, irrelevancy is the one thing that will kill him.

republicans are scared of him , individually , for good reason .

Like Frankenstein was scared of his monster. Since the McCarthy era, Republican strategists have used paranoia, bigotry and educational disparity to consolidate an unquestioning power-base. It wasn't easy: many conservatives had minds of their own, and principles, and respect for the constitution. They had to be eliminated, one way or another - and they were. It took 70 years, a couple of setbacks, and a whole lot of intimidation and backstabbing, but they finally built a unified team of invertebrates willing to deposit their balls in that big gold bowl by the door, in return for the illusion of power. (McCain refused; Romney took his back in a snit - and I hear Christie belatedly claimed a pair; let's just hope he didn't get McConnell's - but that's by the way.) Of course they're scared! They have no Plan B. They have no politics or ideas or direction or plan -- no, not even that oh-so-much-better health care plan that's been 'coming' to 12 years and never arrived. Plus, we don't even know how many besides Guiliani and Barr are legally complicit in Trump's many soon-to-be-prosecutable crimes.

But collectively the power is there .

I'm not so sure. It might be in the states now. Some Republican governors and state legislatures seem to be fed up with head office and want to do things their own way. That will be interesting.

Will They Excerise their will ,

Do you know what their will is? Do they? That, too, will be interesting.
In the meantime, people keep suffering and dying - I guess that's their job.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Plus, we don't even know how many besides Guiliani and Barr are legally complicit in Trump's many soon-to-be-prosecutable crimes.

and given the way the impeachment was handled in the senate, Mc Connell can be added to that list... IMO

 

[iceaura]

Common sense tells me only that you will blame the Reps for everything bad.

Since I've never done that in the past, and show no sign of doing it now
(even in political matters - for example, I don't "blame the Reps" for the takeover of the Republican Party by fascism),

you are clearly mistaking a source of simplistic foolishness for "common sense".

Common sense would tell you to compare your claims to physical reality, not just other claims. It would tell you to factcheck and correct your assertions or not make them - by, for example, reading AGW research reports and Mueller's investigative report and Piketty's linked tome and factual accounts of the Civil War and so forth before posting assertions about them on this forum.

Common sense tells you to stop making claims when you don't know what you are talking about.

I intentionally avoid Orwellian distortions when I see them.

You almost never see them. You parrot them, obliviously, from the US fascist media feed that is your source. (The US corporate capitalist authoritarian militarized atavistic myth based yadda yadda media feed is the plurality source of Orwellian language in the English speaking world - example: "Liberal Fascism" - and you post it here verbatim.)
What you avoid, for the most part, is plain fact and sound reasoning. Why? First guess, as supported by your explicit claims and many posts here: Your source labels it "PC", and you don't know any better.
If you did otherwise, a running joke like Jonah Goldberg and his corporate capitalist authoritarian manure piles of PC addled confusion (not only fascist propaganda but comparatively crude and silly fascist propaganda, given its marketing as punditry and intellectual analysis) would have no chance of publishing a "good book" in your eyes. Instead, you would laugh (and bitch) along with other non-PC folk such as this American liberal/left libertarian: https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2020/11/lifetime-wingnut-welfare-moocher-swears.html

What matters is that it now becomes well-known everywhere that the US elections are easy to fake, much easier than in every civilized country, and that it is quite plausible that those elections have been stolen.

"The US elections", whatever you mean by that, are difficult to fake. You may have meant rig or bias or cheat or steal?
The Presidential elections (one every four years in each State) have become easier to rig and steal in recent decades - you favor that, of course, because it involved government deregulation of the political influence of large capitalist corporations (which you regard as increasing "freedom"), you believe that a well-governed US would be a threat to your "freedom", you don't know what genuinely representative democracies look like or how they work, and you don't know how a union of States like the US is set up. So when the Republican Party sets out to steal yet another Presidency (seven of the past eight, breaking many laws and and abusing many people in the process) your only objection so far is that they were opposed and unsuccessful.

You even appear to be claiming that the Democratic Party is the entity doing the stealing in this latest - that's how far from reality your allegiance to your source has taken you.

In other words, AOC openly asks for collecting evidence against Trump supporters and plans something which would make them "downplay or deny their complicity".

? What you quoted was AOC "asking"
(more reminding - this is a common issue, front and center in the aftermath of every Republican administration since 1980)
whether anyone was archiving - not "collecting", the stuff is already "collected", but simply storing -

the public writings and public statements of Trump supporters.

That's something this forum does routinely. So does every respectable news outlet. It's why intellectuals learn to read and write in the first place.

And as AOC noted, it's important when dealing with Republican voters and pundits and media folk - as every lefty knows and many have been discussing for years now, the Republican voters and media and politicians are going to deny Trump, bury his Presidency and their support of his Presidency, just as they have in the wake of every other Republican federal administration and Republican federal legislative disaster since 1980.

AOC openly asks for collecting evidence against Trump supporters and plans something which would make them "downplay or deny their complicity". This is how I interpreted your recommendation to get used to the lefties remembering

Fair enough - except for the part about "making them" do anything, which did not happen in the past and is unlikely in the future.

What she plans is obvious, of course - she plans to compare what she thinks they will claim to have said and done with the record - in their own words - of what they said and did. Is there something wrong with that?

And in the joke of the year, keeping track of what guys like you say from one day to the next, one week to the next, one year to the next, on public forums and in open public discussion - just that, just remembering stuff - is "collecting evidence" even in your view.

Ya know what? I think you're right. The only surprise there is the hint of a subterranean self-awareness - the implication that you guys do know how full of shit you are and how badly behaved you have been. And that's going to get even funnier as time goes by.

would you care to predict what I would find if I were to trace its recent appearances in US media feeds?

That's easy. Black lists are evil, thus, so only Reps and fascists have them, liberals never. (They can remember stuff, to prevent the Trump supporters from "downplaying or denying their complicity", but so what, Trump supporters have no reason to try such things, given that supporting Trump is legal. Not?)

I agree with AOC: they will "try such things". They always have, in past disasters - some are already launched. Charlie Sykes, for example, on MSNBC, often pretends that this miserable degradation of a formerly noble and conservative Republican Party started in 2016, and had nothing to do with his prior decades of wingnut radio broadcast as the Limbaugh of the Midwest.
Meanwhile, to amuse myself, I asked whether you had any idea where you got the term "blacklist" all of a sudden - there's nothing relevant in the posts you were replying to (mine have nothing to do with blacklists). You don't seem to have understood the question. Yet more evidence that you don't know what your source is, for the bs you post on these topics.

LOL. The media describing something accurately - YMMD

Fact.
You, of course, have no way of assessing the accuracy of any media feed on these topics.[/quote]

 

[Quantum Quack]

Just for the record:
Breaking news here in Au
11am 24/11/2020
General Services Administration recognises Joe Biden as 'apparent' winner of US election, clearing way for presidential transition to begin
The US federal agency responsible for officially signing off on the presidential transition process has recognised Joe Biden as the "apparent winner" of the US election.
The recognition from the General Services Administration clears the way for the start of a transition, despite US President's Donald Trump's refusal to accept the results of the election.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-24/gsa-tells-biden-transition-can-begin/12914330

 

[Jeeves]

Emily's in tro-u-b-le....

 

[Tiassa]

Not from nowhere, but from your line:

Get used to the idea that liberals and lefties remember stuff.​

Note, you referenced not to yourself, to your own memory (which is miserable, judging from your claims about me), but in general to "liberals and lefties". So let's see which information about memories of the left have become popular even internationally:

Is anyone archiving these Trump sycophants for when they try to downplay or deny their complicity in the future? I foresee decent probability of many deleted Tweets, writings, photos in the future - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC)​

In other words, AOC openly asks for collecting evidence against Trump supporters and plans something which would make them "downplay or deny their complicity". This is how I interpreted your recommendation to get used to the lefties remembering stuff.

It occurs to note that all of eight hours before that↗, I happened to note someone who thinks like you; he's an angry right-winger in southern Washington state, or, at least that's where he's been mailing his threats from. It's how he justifies his kill list↱.

Sometimes a right-wing response looks like disproportion, though on other occasions it reads like someone just cannot discern basic differences. In any case, the overlap between your rhetoric, the American conservative argument, and an escalating right-wing wannabe terrorist is hardly surprising.

Think of it this way: It was the American right that brought us blacklists. It was a Republican who brought us an "enemies list". For all the hissyfits conservatives pitched about Barack Obama's pastor, or charity-organization contacts, being disqualifying, or how even the idea of a Secretary of State meeting with a foreign head of state who hosts one of our naval fleets is supposedly indicting, and in consideration of observable political habits of falsely claiming to have never said or done what is on the record, what is the equivalence between not letting people pretend they didn't say or do something, to the one, and this perpetual rightist projection fearing of others the infamies its own history has inflicted on society? Really, what is the equivalence between refusing to let people deny their own words and actions, to the one, and kill lists, to the other? How about an enemies list, or blacklist?

If you actually understood American culture and political history, then you would also be aware that conservatives have long made accountability a political issue, and, furthermore, understand the insincerity about that demand. Accountability makes for a good thump on the podium when complaining about taxes, deficits, liberals, women, Blacks, or whatever else irks conservative fancy, but when it is time for conservatives, traditionalists, and rightists to account for their own selves, we get bawling complaints about political correctness, silencing, and cancel culture.

Think about the idea that it is somehow actionable that someone is a suspected communist or homosexual or Jew. It's true, I've seen an atheist accuse someone of Christianity, before, and I'm pretty sure someone has told me what my religion is, before, but, no, those aren't quite the same. One basic difference, for instance, is that an unempowered crackpot without a clue yelling at me about religion on social media isn't quite the same as prison, death, or being beaten in the street. Part of the rightist tantrum in the U.S. has to do with losing a fight they picked with gay people thirty years ago; it was the first time traditional supremacism flat out lost. Compared to two governments, a Civil War, and a period spanning centuries in which questions of black and white had yet to be solved, the passing of the gay rights revolution within a quarter-century after the right wing picked a particular fight was a truncheon blow to the teeth that, somehow, they just didn't see coming.

One of the results has been a rising sense of panic on the right: What they pretend to fear of others is what they would, themselves, inflict upon the world. And as their desperation grows, all those things they said they weren't, and how awful that anyone ever suggested they were becaue it's just not fair to say that about someone, turned out to actually be where they were going with it the whole time.

And if some do not intend to let others hide what they have said and done and fought for, and won't simply move on and let prestige and privilege enjoy both the infliction upon others and the absolution of never having to answer before being pandered to all over again, no, that's not the same as blacklisting for mere suspicion, or attempting to bring government force against political "enemies", or threatening to kill journalists. Seriously, the idea that people should not let the surrogates or advocates pretend they never said or did isn't really comparable, and at some point it stands out when people are unable to discern such basic differences.
____________________

Notes:

@luistheleftist. "… y'all made the list -". Twitter. 18 November 2020. Twitter.com. 23 November 2020. https://bit.ly/3ff1e6P

 

[Schmelzer]

Plausibility and actuality are totally different. One being fed by subjective paranoia the other by objectivity ( facts)

The plausibility I'm talking about has nothing to do with paranoia, it is the plausibility for observers from outside the US. They have no reason to be afraid of Trump winning, given that he has not even started a single war yet, and they have as well not much reason to fear Biden. This will be an Obama repetition, plausibly with two terrorist wars or so being started somewhere, but this is bad luck for two countries, not for paranoia of the whole world.

I judge from what became known about the technical possibility to fake the election, where the whole world, including banana republics, can only react with facepalm. Then, the criminal energy on the Dem side was large enough, given the criminal energy they have shown before.

Iceaura wrote some of the usual nonsense, which was disposed of. About my avoiding PC, we read the following funny invention:

What you avoid, for the most part, is plain fact and sound reasoning. Why? First guess, as supported by your explicit claims and many posts here: Your source labels it "PC", and you don't know any better.

LOL. If there would be some reasoning, even if full of PC, I would take a look at it.

Instead, you would laugh (and bitch) along with other non-PC folk such as this American liberal/left libertarian: https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2020/11/lifetime-wingnut-welfare-moocher-swears.html

Thanks for sharing this link. I have never expected some higher intellectual level among those you name "liberal/left libertarian", but that they are so low level surprised me nonetheless.

"The US elections", whatever you mean by that, are difficult to fake. You may have meant rig or bias or cheat or steal?

Steal.

The Presidential elections (one every four years in each State) have become easier to rig and steal in recent decades - you favor that, of course, because it involved government deregulation of the political influence of large capitalist corporations (which you regard as increasing "freedom"), you believe that a well-governed US would be a threat to your "freedom", you don't know what genuinely representative democracies look like or how they work, and you don't know how a union of States like the US is set up. So when the Republican Party sets out to steal yet another Presidency (seven of the past eight, breaking many laws and and abusing many people in the process) your only objection so far is that they were opposed and unsuccessful.

The usual lies. Every regular reader can identify them easily - whenever iceaura makes a claim about me, it is a lie. What makes this interesting is an accidental truth. Obviously written by iceaura with the intention to lie (suggesting, as can be seen from the context, that I blindly support everything named "deregulation"), what I have emphasized appears to be correct. If the US would be well-governed, they would be probably able to reach much more, would have used the time from 1989 to now to secure the unipolar world, and Russia and China would not have gained any chance to reach a multipolar world. This would have seriously threatened my freedom.

Fortunately, neither Reps nor Dems will create such a threat. They are fortunately both highly corrupt, and Russia's 10% of the US military budget will remain sufficient for deterrence of the US and even for gaining leadership in more areas.

When we read a quite funny attempt to justify AOC's request. Not worth to be answered, disposed of. Like this:

What she plans is obvious, of course - she plans to compare what she thinks they will claim to have said and done with the record - in their own words - of what they said and did. Is there something wrong with that?

It is quite obvious that she plans something else. Because there would be no point of doing this if this would be all.

And in the joke of the year, keeping track of what guys like you say from one day to the next, one week to the next, one year to the next, on public forums and in open public discussion - just that, just remembering stuff - is "collecting evidence" even in your view.

Actually it is nothing. Evidence it becomes after the revolution, Which, as usual for revolutions, introduces new laws and punishes those who have violated them before the revolution. And iceaura does not really attempt to hide this:

Ya know what? I think you're right. The only surprise there is the hint of a subterranean self-awareness - the implication that you guys do know how full of shit you are and how badly behaved you have been. And that's going to get even funnier as time goes by.

Why would one expect that such things get funnier as time goes by? Usually as time goes by such things become more and more irrelevant, and after 20 years it is already completely irrelevant, everybody could say "So what, indeed, I have changed my opinion during the last 20 years. You haven't?". Once iceaura expects things becoming funnier (to him) with time, he does not seem to have in mind this straightforward expectation of what will change in time. So I suspect that this should be translated as that iceaura hopes to have a lot of fun when the former Trump supporters will be hunted by the BLM mob.

Meanwhile, to amuse myself, I asked whether you had any idea where you got the term "blacklist" all of a sudden - there's nothing relevant in the posts you were replying to (mine have nothing to do with blacklists). You don't seem to have understood the question. Yet more evidence that you don't know what your source is, for the bs you post on these topics.

The word itself is simply part of my active German vocabulary, "schwarze Liste", and translated. I'm not sure if it is better to write "black list" or "blacklist", the German variant would be to write it separately, translation https://www.dict.cc/?s=schwarze+Liste gives both. variants. I need it given that a blacklist collecting information about contract breakers is a key element of my proposal for a reputational system.

 

[Quantum Quack]

The plausibility I'm talking about has nothing to do with paranoia, it is the plausibility for observers from outside the US. They have no reason to be afraid of Trump winning, given that he has not even started a single war yet, and they have as well not much reason to fear Biden. This will be an Obama repetition, plausibly with two terrorist wars or so being started somewhere, but this is bad luck for two countries, not for paranoia of the whole world.

please explain how your comment above relates to the comment I commented on below:

and that it is quite plausible that those elections have been stolen.

As typical of your posting you void the obvious need to adjust your position with a counter that is unrelated.
It is just as plausible that the Republicans attempted to steal the election and failed to do so.
The only difference in what you prefer is fear and agenda. Nothing to do with facts.

• Do you honestly believe that the concern about foreign interference (2016) would not lead to a huge increase in election voter monitoring and scrutiny?
• Do you honestly believe that after Trumps claims of vote rigging made, well before election eve would not lead to a huge increase in election voter monitoring and scrutiny?

Why do you think it is plausible that the Democrats would or could rig the election?
and/or alternatively
Why do you think it is plausible that the Republicans would or could rig the election?

 

[Schmelzer]

It is just as plausible that the Republicans attempted to steal the election and failed to do so.
The only difference in what you prefer is fear and agenda. Nothing to do with facts.

I have explained the difference. In principle, both would be ready to rig the elections. It is what actually happened which makes it more plausible that the Dems have rigged the elections. It is about what made it into the international non-globalist media.

To repeat myself: My point is not that the elections have been stolen, in fact I don't care much, but how that election looks like to the outside world (means, the world outside the Western media bubble). It looks like stolen by the Dems. All those who want to present the elections like stolen have to do is to collect claims like https://twitter.com/thehangingchads/status/1326951639878668296 Foreigners don't know who is that "Chairman of the Federal Election Commission" and what is the value of his claims.

Do you honestly believe that the concern about foreign interference (2016) would not lead to a huge increase in election voter monitoring and scrutiny?

Again, what I believe is not the point. But given that the Russian interference was only a media operation, and that this was well-known among the elites, there was no base for starting to try to prevent something. Moreover, why would they, if they plan to steal the elections themselves?

Do you honestly believe that after Trumps claims of vote rigging made, well before election eve would not lead to a huge increase in election voter monitoring and scrutiny?

The pro-Trump guys may have plausibly tried, but the faked votes have been introduced in Dem strongholds, where they have been weak by definition. And where they are faced with methods as described in https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/11/vasko-kohlmayer/the-lefts-way-violence-fraud-and-intimidation/

Moreover, fraud with mail votes is the part which is much harder to catch.

 

[(Q)]

To repeat myself: My point is not that the elections have been stolen, in fact I don't care much, but how that election looks like to the outside world (means, the world outside the Western media bubble). It looks like stolen by the Dems.

Only the misinformed, ignorant fool would think the Dems stole the election. Most of the world has considered America a laughing stock these past four years and understand the incompetence of Trump and his administration. Some of them have their own groups of incompetent zealots running their countries and recognize crazy when they see it.

You need to give the outside world some credit, they aren't all as gullible as Trump supporters.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I have explained the difference. In principle, both would be ready to rig the elections. It is what actually happened which makes it more plausible that the Dems have rigged the elections. It is about what made it into the international non-globalist media.

Until you actually deal with facts the "looks like" is nothing more than gossip.
The only way the vote can be so called rigged is by way of voter suppression and other electoral region manipulations. ( all pseudo legal stuff)
To actually manipulate votes that have been made en masse is extremely implausible and very unlikely this is because of the diversity of state systems employed and the un-fetted right of the candidate to dispute the election results in a court with out the need to get sent to the Gulag. Do you see Trump being sent to prison for disputing the results?
Do you see Biden yelling out "lock him up" for paying big money for the system's integrity to be tested?
You see Trump is actually doing the USA a big favor by forcing the USA to review all it's democratic processes and discover their vulnerabilities.
Build the wall!
The USA is building a (fire)wall and Trump and the Republican party are paying for it. lol

I seriously can not understand how you can be so negative towards a nation that offers so much more freedom than Putin's Russia. Sure it has problems but none as bad as Russia has.

And you talk of how Trump hasn't started a war as if his retreat of USA global leadership and detente power hasn't facilitated aggression and wars in various places.
China's rise and continuing breech of human rights etc, due to Trumps incompetence,
North Korea's and Iran's (no doubt) success in developing Nukes are all precursors to something you seem to think will be a picnic in a park somewhere.
The removal of the USA from various Nuke and missile treaties means that Trump is expediting nuclear and missile proliferation as we discuss.
You seriously do not expect the vacuum created by Trumps badly implemented isolationist policies is going to be filled with "nice guys", do you?

 

[Schmelzer]

Until you actually deal with facts the "looks like" is nothing more than gossip.

That's my point - the gossip is what matters in the fakenews world. The Western media have started this, creating fakenews about all those they did not like. With "stolen elections" being one of the most popular fakenews to start color revolutions. The world got used to what the Western press found to be clear and sufficient evidence for stolen elections in other countries. Now they get presented, from the US itself, evidence for stolen elections which is much stronger than all those Western faked "stolen election" cases together.

Nobody outside the US planned a color revolution in the US (of course, except the Russians ), no foreign-paid NGOs collect the evidence. So, all those who have found all those "stolen election" claims plausible over the years, find the actual "stolen election" claim even more plausible.

The only way the vote can be so called rigged is by way of voter suppression and other electoral region manipulations. ( all pseudo legal stuff)

No. The disastrous way of handling the lists of voters (which can contain dead voters and so on) is a fact, lack of control over votes per mail is a fact too - mentioning only weak points admitted even by pro-Biden Western media. This is even below a banana republic level of security.

To actually manipulate votes that have been made en masse is extremely implausible and very unlikely this is because of the diversity of state systems employed and the un-fetted right of the candidate to dispute the election results in a court with out the need to get sent to the Gulag. Do you see Trump being sent to prison for disputing the results?

If this right given nothing but yet another counting of the faked mail votes, it will not change anything. So, the most popular theory about the stolen election is immune to this objection.

Do you see Biden yelling out "lock him up" for paying big money for the system's integrity to be tested?

I remember a lot of "lock him up" around over the years, I think here in the forum too, but too lazy to search.

You see Trump is actually doing the USA a big favor by forcing the USA to review all it's democratic processes and discover their vulnerabilities.
Build the wall!
The USA is building a (fire)wall and Trump and the Republican party are paying for it. lol

They would have to start with a normal system of voter registration, which presupposes a normal system of passports or id cards instead of driving licenses, which would it make impossible to vote being dead or to vote for illegal immigrants and so on. This is not what the Dems plan.

(I know that this point is not libertarian - the libertarians will fight against this, but this is an empty, symbolic fight, given that the NSA has all that information anyway, and that there is anyway already an identification of US citizens by some number, social security or so.)

I seriously can not understand how you can be so negative towards a nation that offers so much more freedom than Putin's Russia. Sure it has problems but none as bad as Russia has.

Simply I know that this is what the Western propaganda tells you, not reality. You have not yet presented a single evidence for your lies about what you read in Russian media. Instead have presented a lot, with open attacks in the Russian media against Putin. I can compare the PC mass media in Germany with those in Russia, it is like the comparison in communist times, only with reversed direction.

And you talk of how Trump hasn't started a war as if his retreat of USA global leadership and detente power hasn't facilitated aggression and wars in various places.
China's rise and continuing breech of human rights etc, due to Trumps incompetence,

It hasn't. NK is now as peaceful as it has been before, in the South China Sea the level of confrontation is also essentially the same as in Obama time, China itself was under attack by Trump and is happy with Biden (I think there is already a long line of Chinese firms to offer jobs to Hunter), it had to defend itself, and of course defense against color revolutions requires at least some increase in the level of suppression.

North Korea's and Iran's (no doubt) success in developing Nukes are all precursors to something you seem to think will be a picnic in a park somewhere.

It is the predictable result of the many US regime change operations and its complete ignorance of international law. Once the strongest military power ignores the rule of law and openly follows the law of the dshungle, all those states who are not willing to submit to US rule have to take measures. Nukes are one such measure. Nobody attacks Israel except in retaliation because they have nukes. Nobody attacks NK because they have nukes. Iran has appeared strong enough based on rockets good enough to destroy all the US based around it, as they have shown destroying one of them. This, together with modern Russian air defense, was too much for the US military to start a war. All this has nothing to do with Trump, one of the key events was Obama murdering Ghadafi - who has given up building nukes before, relying on Western peace promises. So, we live in a world with death penalty for the stupidity to believe the West.

This Western arrogance of "we can regime change the whole world, let's do it" after the Cold War has harmed the world a lot because it has forced states around the world to develop defenses against such regime changes. Some of those security measures look dictatorial, seem to suppress "freedom of press" and so on, but such is live - one cannot be safe from US regime change with the whole country full of Northamerican Government Organizations (NGOs) and the whole mass media controlled by US media moguls.

Of course, the multipolar world will not be a completely peaceful utopia. But there will be rule of international law. With sovereignty of the states as the key element. How this works in reality you can see in the Karabach conflict. The conflict was an old one, from the time after the collapse of the USSR, and with a civil war between Armenians and Azeris in Azerbaidshan, the former supported by Armenians. What did the local pole do? Following international law. The territory of the fighting was Azerbaidshan, thus, the Azeris had the right to do this given their sovereignty. On the other hand, there was a warranty given to Armenia that if Armenia will be attacked, then Russia will defend Armenia. Then Russia negotiated a peace which was as close to recovering full Azerbaidshan sovereignty as possible given the actual situation. Namely, Azerbaidshan gains control over all former Azeri parts except the Armenian populated Karabach itself, there will be no Armenian military in Karabach, but Russian peacekeepers, Armenia gets a corridor to Karabakh protected by Russian peacekeepers, and Azerbaidshan gets a similar corridor to Nachitchevan also protected by the Russian peacekeepers. So, a solution satisfactory to the people on the ground, reestablishing a lot of international law, with the remains under control by peacekeepers. And Russian peacekeepers are now quite good in preserving peace, they have learned a lot in Syria where they were used in a lot of local situations.

The removal of the USA from various Nuke and missile treaties means that Trump is expediting nuclear and missile proliferation as we discuss.
You seriously do not expect the vacuum created by Trumps badly implemented isolationist policies is going to be filled with "nice guys", do you?

The most serious expedition of nuclear proliferation was murdering Ghadaffi. That guy who was so stupid that he has stopped his own nuclear program believing the West will play fair.

 

[Schmelzer]

Only the misinformed, ignorant fool would think the Dems stole the election.

LOL. You Americans have taught the world how stolen elections look like - according to the US propaganda in preparation of regime change operations. Now the US has to live with the fact that these quite low standards of proof are all what is necessary to prove election fraud. And with these low standards of proof, it is obvious that the elections have been stolen by the Dems. Such is life.

Most of the world has considered America a laughing stock these past four years and understand the incompetence of Trump and his administration. Some of them have their own groups of incompetent zealots running their countries and recognize crazy when they see it.

The point being?

You need to give the outside world some credit, they aren't all as gullible as Trump supporters.

If Trump supporters would name black Biden voters gullible, I would guess you would name such claims racist, not? And I would recommend you to face the fact that Trump supporters are not as stupid as you present them. At least they are not that stupid to believe the US mainstream media. And naming them stupid creates only hatred. If you want some civil war in the US, I would recommend you to continue this way.

Foreigners are indeed less gullible than Americans, they have been confronted with different types of propaganda (even if only because the US propaganda is strong enough to reach everybody, may be except NK, and outside the US vassals there is also other propaganda. So they learn how propaganda looks like and how to identify the lies. The classical example here are emigrants from USSR in the US, who have said "the media lie as in the USSR, but the Americans believe them". Once one has learned how to identify propaganda, one can identify it easily.

 

[iceaura]

And with these low standards of proof, it is obvious that the elections have been stolen by the Dems.

You mean the Reps.

Foreigners are indeed less gullible than Americans,

You are the single most gullible poster on this forum.

And I would recommend you to face the fact that Trump supporters are not as stupid as you present them. At least they are not that stupid to believe the US mainstream media.

Republican voters believe the US mainstream media (Fox, Sinclair, Facebook, Twitter, Clear Channel, the Murdoch press, the major televangelist shows and megachurch pulpits, all the big ones) more completely and less critically than any other demographic in the country. No other large demographic is as gullible and vulnerable to the US mainstream media as the average Republican voter.

Once one has learned how to identify propaganda, one can identify it easily.

You can't. You fall for everything the Republican media feed puts out, no matter how ludicrous, and post it here as fact. You are so reliably manipulable by the US rightwing corporate authoritarian media feed I can use your posts to track it.

And naming them stupid creates only hatred. If you want some civil war in the US, I would recommend you to continue this way.

Won't make any difference.
The hate came first, based on their believing the bullshit they were being fed by the mainstream media and acting on it to abuse people (human beings often hate those they have abused - that's one of the most common sources of hatred. It's a way to justify the abuse, which would otherwise burden them with guilt and obligation).

- meanwhile, their believing the mainstream media agitprop about "elites" calling them "stupid", actually justifying their votes for the likes of McConnell and W and Cheney and Nunez on the basis of somebody somewhere calling them "stupid", is partly what eventually led to them being called stupid (that and the extreme racial bigotry in the Jim Crow States, which to an outsider is bizarre and senseless).

You have the sequence of events backwards, as usual when making claims about domestic American circumstances.

Americans have already seen them start a Civil War, despite diligent attempts to appease them and compromise with their racial bigotry and economic fantasies - we know that pandering to them won't prevent them from starting another, or change their minds about anything. They're right now trying to fence off the Mexican border and build concentration camps for anyone trying to flee the narcos they fostered in the south - the low level guerrilla and paramilitary wars they started decades ago (in the southern countries that tried to set up representative governments and levy taxes on rich people) are unlikely to get any lower when confronted with blockades like that.

As all fascist media manipulators have known and relied upon for generations now, naive liberal attempts at persuading the agitprop addled via reason simply postpone the inevitable confrontation of power - the Republican vote is a minority vote in the US, and the least dangerous way to prevent that vicious and ignorant tool of authoritarian demagogues from wrecking the country is by majority vote and majority representation in government.

 

[(Q)]

LOL. You Americans have taught the world how stolen elections look like - according to the US propaganda in preparation of regime change operations. Now the US has to live with the fact that these quite low standards of proof are all what is necessary to prove election fraud. And with these low standards of proof, it is obvious that the elections have been stolen by the Dems. Such is life.

But, only misinformed, ignorant fools would be gullible enough to malign themselves with such an absurd idea.

If Trump supporters would name black Biden voters gullible, I would guess you would name such claims racist, not? And I would recommend you to face the fact that Trump supporters are not as stupid as you present them. At least they are not that stupid to believe the US mainstream media. And naming them stupid creates only hatred. If you want some civil war in the US, I would recommend you to continue this way.

I don't present the willful stupidity Trump supporters are currently demonstrating, they are doing that in spades without my help.

Foreigners are indeed less gullible than Americans, they have been confronted with different types of propaganda (even if only because the US propaganda is strong enough to reach everybody, may be except NK, and outside the US vassals there is also other propaganda. So they learn how propaganda looks like and how to identify the lies. The classical example here are emigrants from USSR in the US, who have said "the media lie as in the USSR, but the Americans believe them". Once one has learned how to identify propaganda, one can identify it easily.

I lived in the Soviet Union, you certainly don't have to tell me what life looks like there compared to America, so please don't insult my intelligence as to what those differences entail. It's pretty obvious you have no clue what that looks like.

 

[(Q)]

I cannot believe what I read today, that the Dems are actually considering giving Trump a full pardon for his negligence and incompetence on handling the pandemic. Surely, this is just a silly rumor.

 

[Neddy Bate]

i herd that prezdent Trunk wone the eleckshun, but it wez stolen. why aint no one lookin at? proof of ne'er do wells? u tell me

Sorry for borrowing your shtick, clueless husband. (*Patiently waiting for 1-20-21).

 

[Schmelzer]

You are the single most gullible poster on this forum.

LOL. The voice out of the Western propaganda bubble.

I lived in the Soviet Union,

А пошел ты знаешь куда?

 

[Schmelzer]

Only the misinformed, ignorant fool would think the Dems stole the election.

See an analysis of these strange jumps: https://votepatternanalysis.substack.com/p/voting-anomalies-2020

Only a misinformed, ignorant fool would think that the Dems have not stolen the election.

 

[iceaura]

See an analysis of these strange jumps:

Your inability to handle even fairly simple statistical arguments is one of the reasons your claims to be able to analyze propaganda are not serious. If you can't spot what's wrong with the argument in that link, how could you ever hope to defend yourself against more sophisticated deceptions?

The entire argument on that site is based on the mail in and absentee votes swinging more heavily toward Biden than the "analyst" said they expected. Apparently the analyst there expected something different. We don't know why - the analyst does not explain where they got their expectations. We do know how everybody else came to expect a heavy Biden swing in the mail in and absentee ballots from some States - the analysts have been talking about it for weeks now, whenever they reported on the latest Republican attempt to disqualify them and prevent them from being counted (only in the States where they were expected to swing toward Biden, of course).

In other words, we don't know why the deep thinking analyst there did not expect what pretty much everyone else did - the only question raised by that link is how the deep thinking analyst came to be surprised by what every reasonably informed person did expect.

Only a misinformed, ignorant fool would think that the Dems have not stolen the election.

You apparently think the Republican attempts to block, discard, disqualify, delay, and otherwise prevent the counting of, the huge number of mail in and absentee ballots people cast in this election, were innocent?

Notice how the "analyst" in your link there was especially concerned about the timing of the vote count, the lateness of the swing toward Biden in the States they chose to focus on - claiming that was evidence of Democratic manipulation - when for several weeks leading up to the vote Republican Party officials and office holders had been filing court cases and pushing legislation and issuing rules enforcing the timing of the count in exactly those States.

It was the Republicans, not the Democrats, that set the timing of those vote counts. The lateness of the swing toward Biden, the delay in counting those votes, was a consequence of Republican Party manipulation of the vote counting in those key States.

Meanwhile, it was Trump's Republican federal executive administration, not the Democrats in Congress, who jacked around with the Post Office to delay delivery of legally cast ballots, simultaneously telling the Republican voters in those key States to vote in person and ignore Covid - thereby increasing the expectation that the swing toward Biden would happen late and be unusually heavy, and isolating a large fraction of the Biden vote in a category that could be slandered in a propaganda campaign.

Like this little item, from your link:

(In other words, it's not surprising to see vote updates with large margins, and it's not surprising to see vote updates with very large ratios of support between the candidates, but it is surprising to see vote updates which are both).

It didn't surprise anyone paying attention. It didn't surprise anyone who could handle basic statistics, and knew the circumstances involved. Why is this analyst claiming to be surprised?

And you call other people fools.

The Republican media feed has been setting you guys up for weeks now - and you went for it like a baby sunfish hits a worm.