I agree, atheism wasn't the real problem--they were a bunch of frigging psychopaths, the whole lot of them. They'd have been kill-crazy m'f'ers in whatever century, whichever state, whether they were atheist or religious.
The Stalin/Pol Pot/Hitler Killed Because of Atheism Fallacy
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
I agree, atheism wasn't the real problem--they were a bunch of frigging psychopaths, the whole lot of them. They'd have been kill-crazy m'f'ers in whatever century, whichever state, whether they were atheist or religious.
i agree. how welcome are frigging psychopaths at church? maybe they were atheists because you don't have to do anything to be one?
She is yet to name any.Bet I can name more religious dictators than you can name atheist ones SAMDid those leaders claim atheism told them to kill people?
Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist, Hitler was a Lutheran Catholic, and Stalin was an anti-religious Communist exCatholic.
because
People of faith often claim that the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot were the inevitable product of unbelief. The problem with fascism and communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are dogmatic to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the gulag and the killing fields were not examples of what happens when human beings reject religious dogma; they are examples of political, racial and nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too reasonable.
this is a common mistake made by theists, typically those of the fundy type, they believe atheism is essentially socialist or communist in nature. Thus, atheism should be rejected since socialism and communism are evil. How stupid!
the first thing we should note is there is an automatic and almost unconscious assumption made by these theists that their religion is somehow equivalent with captialism.
Communism is not, however, atheistic. It is possible to have communistic or socialistic views while being a theist and it isn't at all wrong to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism, which is a combination often found among objectivists and libertarians.
their existence alone demonstrates, that atheism and communism are not the same thing.
is christianity opposed to communism? No, the opposite, actually. There is nothing in the gospels which even so much as suggests a divine preference for captialism, now is there.
quite a bit of what Jesus said supports many of the of socialism and even communism. http://latter-rain.com/general/commu.htm
He specifically said that that people should give all they could to the poor and that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.
basic communism states to hold all property in common rather than privately, is practiced by numerous Christian communities now and throughout history. references to it can be found in Acts:
Acts 4:33-35 "With great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. "
The similarity to Marx's principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" should be obvious.
and here again in Acts:
Acts 5:1-11 "But a man named Ananias, with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; with his wife’s knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. "Ananias," Peter asked, "why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, were not the proceeds at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to us but to God!" Now when Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard of it.
The young men came and wrapped up his body, then carried him out and buried him. After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter said to her, "Tell me whether you and your husband sold the land for such and such a price." And she said, "Yes, that was the price." Then Peter said to her, "How is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out." Immediately she fell down at his feet and died. When the young men came in they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear seized the whole church and all who heard of these things."
their deaths served as an example to all the others of what would happen if they, too, held back profits for themselves instead of giving everything to the community.
so we can see that this was the first christian commune(ist) society.
so please lets get away from this silly reference to atheism and communism being the same, the bible is basically a communist manifesto.
thank you waronfaith.
Contradiction. Catholicism and Lutheranism are entirely different things. Hitler was raised Roman Catholic, and stated publically to be a Roman Catholic, not Lutheran. However, his personal beliefs were very different from any religion, and were closer to a very disturbed form of deism which held himself as the chosen man for Germany's "salvation". If anything, Nazism was his dogma and religion.
Incorrect. He was a former communicant of the Russian Orthodox Church, not the Roman Catholic one (which had very little presence in Russia).
Furthermore, he wasn't consistently anti-religious. He waffled back and forth, but ended his life on good terms with the Russian Church.
They are one and the same lutheran is just a denomination of catholism.
http://www.lutheranworld.org/what_we_do/oea/bilateral_relations/OEA-Lutheran-Roman_Catholic.html
http://www.goodshepherdcollinsville.org/Biblestudy/catholic_lutheran.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/MartinLuther-HitlersSpiritualAncestor.html
Not relevant, it still meant he was religious.
He was born to influential Catholic parents, went to catholic school,
http://one-evil.org/people/people_20c_Stalin.htm
However your argument is still still not relevant, he was a communist, was he not, thats the main point.
Stalin banning religion is not correlation. Stalin's party funding and supporting the Общество безбожников aka The Union of Belligerent Atheists or The League of the Militant Godless and promoting atheism as an alternative to religion is not a correlation.
You could be describing Dawkins' speeches. Dawkins was educated in an Anglican church school. Is he an atheist?
You could be describing Dawkins' speeches. Dawkins was educated in an Anglican church school. Is he an atheist?
Note sure if this has been noted already, but no harm I guess.
The inscription on Nazi uniform belt buckles reads - Gott Mit Uns - "God with us".
The estimate of the number of people who died in WW2 is around 50-70 million. Although more recent access to Soviet records reveals that the Soviets alone accounted for some 50 million who died. Weren't they mainly atheists being killed by theistic Germans?
Most who fought though in WW2, on both sides, were predominantly theistic.
The inscription on Nazi uniform belt buckles reads - Gott Mit Uns - "God with us".
The estimate of the number of people who died in WW2 is around 50-70 million. Although more recent access to Soviet records reveals that the Soviets alone accounted for some 50 million who died. Weren't they mainly atheists being killed by theistic Germans?
Most who fought though in WW2, on both sides, were predominantly theistic.
*************
M*W: Yes, that's what I was implying.
Lutheranism was a result of the Protestant reformation, and is not part of the Catholic Church. They are a separate denomination of Christianity.
When did I say he wasn't?
They're misusing the term "Catholic" to include all denominations of the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Roman Catholic churches.
He was part of the Georgian Orthodox Church, raised by Georgian Orthodox parents, and went to a Georgian Orthodox seminary.
What "argument"? I'm not arguing anything; just clearing up details that you have failed to be historically correct in.
Yes Catholic Christianity.
These people would not like being called protestant.
http://www.lutheranworld.org/what_we..._Catholic.html
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl
So was he Catholic or Protestant.
Eastern Orthodoxy is just an off shoot of the Catholic church.
http://netministries.org/see/churches.exe/ch04272
http://christianity.about.com/od/easternorthodoxy/a/orthodoxhistory.htm
Why are we playing semantics.
I may not have given as much info as you liked, to get my point across.
I didn't think I would need to give the ins and outs of a donkeys arse, when it wasn't need.
Which brings me to this.
Emo Phillips
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him off.
Just change Protestant to Catholic in the above joke. and go from there.
Lets not! play this silly semantics game.
LOL. I suppose I'm not the only one who likes to quote him.
-=-
That joke is older than he is.
That joke is older than he is.
Semantics is everything in any discussion.