The source of Mohammed's revelations?

C

chalcedony

Registered Senior Member
No prophet of God ever doubted the words of God. No true prophet ever doubted the authority of their revelation. Mohammed doubted the origins of his revelations. (hadith 1.1.3) He relied on his wife, Khadija. She asserted the divinity of his revelations. Isn’t there a hadith about the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man? Mohammed said it was because the deficiency of a woman’s mind. Yet his woman affirmed Mohammed’s revelation. By what authority, experience or qualification did Khadija have to definitely affirm that the source of Mohammed’s messages was from God and not an evil spirit?

The bible tells us to test the spirits
1 John 4
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

How did Khadija test this spirit?

Ibn Ishaq recorded that when the spirit came another time, Khadija tested him:
Isma`il b. Abu Hakim, a freedman of the family of al-Zubayr, told me on Khadija's authority that she said to the apostle of God, 'O son of my uncle, are you able to tell me about your visitant, when he comes to you?" He replied that he could, and she asked him to tell her when he came. So when Gabriel came to him, as he was wont, the apostle said to Khadija, 'This is Gabriel who has just come to me.' `Get up, O son of my uncle,' she said, `and sit by my left thigh.' The apostle did so, and she said, `Can you see him?' `Yes,' he said. She said, `Then turn around and sit on my right thigh.' He did so, and she said, `Can you see him?' When he said that he could she asked him to move and sit in her lap. When he had done this she again asked if he could see him, and when he said yes, she disclosed her form and cast aside her veil while the apostle was sitting in her lap. Then she said, `Can you see him?' And he replied, `No.' She said, `O son of my uncle, rejoice and be of good heart, by God he is an angel and not a satan.' (Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, tr. Guillaume, 1967, p. 107)
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This testing is very interesting and appeared to be a cultural/traditional method of testing spirits. In Chinese culture, however, demons and devils are the ones afraid of female nude appearances, the exact opposite of the test by Khadija. So can this test be a good test of the spirits?


This brings to mind the Satanic verses. How could a prophet of God receive revelations that contradict God’s own word? I do not understand how this is possible.

Galatians 1
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

2 Corinthians 11
13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
 
And who tested Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Jonah. Last I checked, Jesus was killed by a STATE with the charge of being a majician or a mad man who is spreading corruption, and I believe in Jesus message with all my heart.

Perhaps you should join the Jewish group that stood in the desert and argued the validity of Moses message and opted to worship a golden cow instead.
 
Prophet Muhammed in the bible and blessed by Jesus

God told us in the bible that Prophet Muhammed is coming. God told us not to be afraid of him and he told that a sign of a true prophet is one that speaks in the name of god. Every Quranic Sura starts with.. IN THE NAME OF GOD.
The bible tells us how to test for a false prophet.

Deut.18
[21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
[22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.



Prophet Muhammed was unlettered...Didn't know how to read or write:
'And the Book is delivered to him that is not learned' (Isaiah 29:12).
Jesus was indeed learned, so the book spoken of above is the Quran.

another verser from the bible:
'And the Book is delivered to him that is no learned, saying: 'Read this I pray thee'. And he saith: 'I am not learned.' ' (Isaiah 29:12).

The Quran tells us that when the angel came to Muhammed he recited the following Sura:

The Clot
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[96.1] Read in the name of your Lord Who created.
[96.2] He created man from a clot.
[96.3] Read and your Lord is Most Honorable,
[96.4] Who taught (to write) with the pen
[96.5] Taught man what he knew not.
[96.6] Nay! man is most surely inordinate,
[96.7] Because he sees himself free from want.
[96.8] Surely to your Lord is the return.
[96.9] Have you seen him who forbids
[96.10] A servant when he prays?
[96.11] Have you considered if he were on the right way,
[96.12] Or enjoined guarding (against evil)?
[96.13] Have you considered if he gives the lie to the truth and turns (his) back?
[96.14] Does he not know that Allah does see?
[96.15] Nay! if he desist not, We would certainly smite his forehead,
[96.16] A lying, sinful forehead.
[96.17] Then let him summon his council,
[96.18] We too would.summon the braves of the army.
[96.19] Nay! obey him not, and make obeisance and draw nigh (to Allah).

Jesus himself told that he is not done and that he will pray to the father for another prophet.

"And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you into the age (to come)." John 14:16

Jesus told us that he must leave us so that the last prophet may come:
"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Paraclete shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." John 16:7


And when Prophet Muhammed came, he beared a wittness of Jesus, he spoke of Jesus miracle birth, he spoke of Jesus message.
"When the Paraclete comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness of me." John 15:26

Jesus told us that another is coming to teach us all things. I ask you who is this person that will teach us everything.
"But the Paraclete, the Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." John 14:26
 
Jesus told us that another is coming to teach us all things. I ask you who is this person that will teach us everything.
"But the Paraclete, the Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." John 14:26
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I always love the Paraclete argument. It is like saying "which" and "witch" are the same words because they sound alike.

The Greek term is parakletos "the One who comes alongside". A similar term periklytos "famed" or "praised". The Arabic term "praised" is Ahmad which is similar to Ahamad a variant spelling of Mohammed. One muslim scholar once wrote that "Ahmad is almost a translation of parakletos". And so the whole misinformation/lie started.

When reading the whole passage in context it is clear that Jesus was not refering to a Mohammed since not only would His apostles know him but that the Parakletos would abide with Jesus' followers forever. Dead false prophets like Mohammed cannot abide with the followers of Jesus forever.
 
Flores, the quotes from Deuteronomy do not mean that if a prophet claims to speak from the Lord, he really is. The verses mean that if a prophet claims to speak from the Lord and his prophecies do not come to pass, then clearly he is not speaking from the Lord. Just because the suras say "in the name of God" does not make them true, especially when so many of them are false.
 
Is 29:12 is not speaking of the quran. You are taking things out of context. The entire passage of Isaiah 29:1-24 refers to Israel. Verse 1 specifically states that the Lord is addressing the city of Ariel (Jerusalem) where David settled. Verse 12 states that God's revelation to Isaiah here is a closed book to all people. Verse 22 clearly states that the Lord is talking about Israel, the house of Jacob. Ishmael is not the house of Jacob. Mohammed and the quran are not the house of Jacob.

Mohammed was literate, otherwise how could he have changed the treaty at Mecca as history tells us he did? When the Meccans refused to concede that he was an apostle of Allah, he struck out that phrase on the treaty and wrote "Mohammed son of Abdullah". Also, as a successful businessman it is highly unlikely that he would have been illiterate.
 
Can you please explain to me what DEUT 18:18 means !!!
 
Deut. 18
15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me [Moses] from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
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Moses was a Jew, the Israelites were Jews. Was Muhammed a Jew?
18... I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
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John 17
8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

And in John 5:39 Jesus says, 39You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

If Muhammed is a prophet like Moses, then his laws are no different than Moses'. But it is clear that laws can only judge - it provides condemnation, not salvation. Do Muslims believe what Moses wrote?
 
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Bravo Jenyar

Jenyar have finally confessed that Jesus is a PROPHET just like Moses. So Jesus is not a son of god, daughter of god, god, stooge of god, ect.....

Thanks Jenyar for the insightfull clarification of Deut18
 
Flores, you have no idea what you are saying. If you beleive Jesus was a prophet, you must believe in the prophesies concerning Him in the Old Testament, and in His own words. As the Messiah and the fulfilment of God's servant Israel, Jesus is the light of the world. See my answer to Medicine*Woman in the "Jesus saves" thread.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
Flores, you have no idea what you are saying.
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And you do?

Originally posted by Jenyar
If you beleive Jesus was a prophet, you must believe in the prophesies concerning Him in the Old Testament, and in His own words.
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I do, I believe that Jesus is a prophet with a message and a book of Injil. I don't believe he is the last prophet, and there is nothing in Deut or anywhere else in the bible that closes the cap on the number of prophets. You on the other hand don't believe that Jesus is a prophet like me and thus have a lot of explaining to do on who is the prophet prophecised in Deut who is JUST LIKE MOSES....no more no less.
 
No prophet of God ever doubted the words of God. No true prophet ever doubted the authority of their revelation. Mohammed doubted the origins of his revelations. (hadith 1.1.3) He relied on his wife, Khadija. She asserted the divinity of his revelations. Isn’t there a hadith about the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man? Mohammed said it was because the deficiency of a woman’s mind. Yet his woman affirmed Mohammed’s revelation. By what authority, experience or qualification did Khadija have to definitely affirm that the source of Mohammed’s messages was from God and not an evil spirit?
 
I'm very much not a Muslim.

Where does it say that prophets don't question the origins of whatever? You've probably said it already, somewhere, but I seemed to have missed it.
 
Re: Bravo Jenyar

Originally posted by Flores
Jenyar have finally confessed that Jesus is a PROPHET just like Moses. So Jesus is not a son of god, daughter of god, god, stooge of god, ect.....

Thanks Jenyar for the insightfull clarification of Deut18
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:D

This is why I asked about DEUT 18:18

You see sister, it is very easy to get them on the run.

:D
 
Originally posted by chalcedony
No prophet of God ever doubted the words of God. No true prophet ever doubted the authority of their revelation. Mohammed doubted the origins of his revelations. (hadith 1.1.3) He relied on his wife, Khadija. She asserted the divinity of his revelations. Isn’t there a hadith about the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man? Mohammed said it was because the deficiency of a woman’s mind. Yet his woman affirmed Mohammed’s revelation. By what authority, experience or qualification did Khadija have to definitely affirm that the source of Mohammed’s messages was from God and not an evil spirit?
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What hadith is that ( 1.1.3 ) !!!!! we dont have hadith 1.1.3, we dont classify the ahadith like that !!!!

You see, those pathetics cant and dont dare to approach the noble quran, so they go to the hadith and invent ones or make up ones !!!

SO ABSURD.

:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
What hadith is that ( 1.1.3 ) !!!!! we dont have hadith 1.1.3, we dont classify the ahadith like that !!!!

You see, those pathetics cant and dont dare to approach the noble quran, so they go to the hadith and invent ones or make up ones !!!

SO ABSURD.
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Pathetic lies, attempts on your part to deny your own religious writings. The hadith is what you use to interpret the quran. Many of you try to hide it since the hadith stress a militant violent view of the quran.

Fromthis website. This collection of hadith

Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read.

The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones."

By what authority, experience or qualification did Khadija have to affirm that the revelations Mohammed experienced were from God and not demons? When my question gets an answer and not mere ravings that do not address the question, then I will repsond to your questions. I am not on the run as you foolishly boasted.
 
Originally posted by chalcedony
Pathetic lies, attempts on your part to deny your own religious writings. The hadith is what you use to interpret the quran. Many of you try to hide it since the hadith stress a militant violent view of the quran.
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P S:

When you write hadith 1.1.3 or something like that, it only shows your level of ignorance.....ok, let me DESTROY your lies one by one:

==========================

Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read.
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P S:

Until now, nothing wrong according to your understanding, in fact, the hadith talks about ( suddenly the TRUTH descended upon him ) which means you agree on that since you post the hadith !!! right ????????????? let me carry on:

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The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones."
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P S:

And nothing wrong so far, the prophet is such a great polite person.

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By what authority, experience or qualification did Khadija have to affirm that the revelations Mohammed experienced were from God and not demons? When my question gets an answer and not mere ravings that do not address the question, then I will repsond to your questions. I am not on the run as you foolishly boasted.
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P S:

You moron forget or maybe because of your sheer ignorance of islam, you forgot that his wife khadija was CHRISTIAN and her cousin NOFEL IBN WARAGA was indeed a PRIEST and he used to teach her about God and about revelation and angels and in fact, she took the prophet to him and when the prophet told him what happned, he told him, YOU ARE THE LAST PROPHET THAT GOD PROMISED IN THE BIBLE..

For more information about this topic, please check this:

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/khadija.html

NOW, after i answered you, can you please answer my question about the contradictions in your bible ????

thanks.
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You moron forget or maybe because of your sheer ignorance of islam, you forgot that his wife khadija was CHRISTIAN and her cousin NOFEL IBN WARAGA was indeed a PRIEST and he used to teach her about God and about revelation and angels and in fact, she took the prophet to him and when the prophet told him what happned, he told him, YOU ARE THE LAST PROPHET THAT GOD PROMISED IN THE BIBLE..
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Really, your words reflect poorly on you and also show your ignorance. Khadija was not a Christian as Christians define the term. She was an Ebionite Christian. That cultic sect denied the deity of Jesus Christ and believed that He was a mere man, a mere prophet who was the natural son of Joseph and Mary. Her false beliefs of Christianity would affect the words of Mohammed later when he recites distorted views of Christianity in the quran. Somewhere I have notes on her cousin. I can’t find them now, but as I remember he was not a priest at the time but was in disgrace for some false teaching. The Bible DOES NOT promise any more prophets since Jesus fulfilled the need for prophets. The Son of God has fulfilled the promises written about in the Bible.
 
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